WISH: separate org-mode customization file

WISH: separate org-mode customization file

[Harri Kiiskinen]

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I was wondering, whether it might be possible to implement a separate
customization file for org-mode? I use two different computers, one with
Linux and other with XP, and an USB stick with Emacs installed, that I
can use at various places. I only synchronise my work files, though, and
it definitively is not possible to sync ~/.emacs between different
systems, so to have similar org-mode configuration on every system, I
have to do the customisation by hand in a separate file, which I then
sync between the systems.
	To ease this, I'd suggest adding a way to make org-mode use an external
customisation file to store the settings and everything, instead of the
~/.emacs or whatever it happens to be. I'd do something like that by
myself, but Emacs Lisp is just trees to me...

Best Wishes,

Harri K.

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R: WISH: separate org-mode customization file

[Giovanni Ridolfi]

--- Mar 1/7/08, Harri Kiiskinen <harkiisk@utu.fi> ha scritto:
> Data: Martedì 1 luglio 2008, 12:19
> I was wondering, whether it might be possible to implement a
> separate
> customization file for org-mode? 

Hi, Harri,

please write in your both 

~/.emacs  and c:\Documents and Settings\Your-user\Application data\.emacs

(load "your/path/your-org-config.el")

Giovanni (Emacs 22.2, Win-xp)


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Re: R: WISH: separate org-mode customization file

[Manish]

  On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Giovanni Ridolfi wrote:
  > --- Mar 1/7/08, Harri Kiiskinen ha scritto:
  >> Data: Martedì 1 luglio 2008, 12:19
  >> I was wondering, whether it might be possible to implement a
  >> separate
  >> customization file for org-mode?
  >
  > Hi, Harri,
  >
  > please write in your both
  >
  > ~/.emacs  and c:\Documents and Settings\Your-user\Application data\.emacs
  >
  > (load "your/path/your-org-config.el")

Now if I use customize interface to well.. customize then what
will be updated .emacs or "your-org-config.el"?

Thanks,
-- Manish

Re: R: WISH: separate org-mode customization file

[Bernt Hansen]

Manish <mailtomanish.sharma@gmail.com> writes:

>   On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Giovanni Ridolfi wrote:
>   > --- Mar 1/7/08, Harri Kiiskinen ha scritto:
>   >> Data: Martedì 1 luglio 2008, 12:19
>   >> I was wondering, whether it might be possible to implement a
>   >> separate
>   >> customization file for org-mode?
>   >
>   > Hi, Harri,
>   >
>   > please write in your both
>   >
>   > ~/.emacs  and c:\Documents and Settings\Your-user\Application data\.emacs
>   >
>   > (load "your/path/your-org-config.el")
>
> Now if I use customize interface to well.. customize then what
> will be updated .emacs or "your-org-config.el"?

set the variable 'custom-file' to the file you want your custom settings
in.

HTH
-Bernt

Re: Re: R: WISH: separate org-mode customization file

[Giovanni Ridolfi]

--- Mar 1/7/08, Manish  ha scritto:

>   > please write in your both
>   >
>   > ~/.emacs  and c:\Documents and
> Settings\Your-user\Application data\.emacs
>   >
>   > (load "your/path/your-org-config.el")
> 
> Now if I use customize interface to well.. customize then
> what
> will be updated .emacs or "your-org-config.el"?

   .emacs   :-/

 unless (from Emacs manual)
"
 Normally this saves customizations in your init file, `~/.emacs'.
If you wish, you can save customizations in another file instead.  To
make this work, your `~/.emacs' should set `custom-file' to the name of
that file.  Then you should load the file by calling `load'.  For
example:

     (setq custom-file "~/.emacs-custom.el")
     (load custom-file)
"

cheers
Giovanni


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Re: Re: R: WISH: separate org-mode customization file

[Harri Kiiskinen]

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On Tue, 2008-07-01 at 10:53 -0400, Bernt Hansen wrote:
> Manish <mailtomanish.sharma@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> >   On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Giovanni Ridolfi wrote:
> >   > --- Mar 1/7/08, Harri Kiiskinen ha scritto:
> >   >> Data: Martedì 1 luglio 2008, 12:19
> >   >> I was wondering, whether it might be possible to implement a
> >   >> separate
> >   >> customization file for org-mode?
> >   >
> >   > Hi, Harri,
> >   >
> >   > please write in your both
> >   >
> >   > ~/.emacs  and c:\Documents and Settings\Your-user\Application data\.emacs
> >   >
> >   > (load "your/path/your-org-config.el")
> >
> > Now if I use customize interface to well.. customize then what
> > will be updated .emacs or "your-org-config.el"?
> 
> set the variable 'custom-file' to the file you want your custom settings
> in.
> 

Thank you all for the answers, but it seems that I was not quite clear
enough. I'm quite able to set the 'custom-file' to whatever I want, and
I can (load "myconfig.el") - which is what I currently do. Lets restate
the problem:

1. I cannot and do not want to share _all_ customizations, since many of
them are system specific - absolute paths, modes which function on Linux
but not on XP (e.g. whizzy-tex), face settings etc.
2. I want to share org-mode customization, which is system independent,
in my case. This I can do with (load "myconfig.el"), but the file has to
be edited by hand, as the Emacs Customize for org-mode saves everything
where 'custom-file' points to.
3. If I set 'custom-file' to "myconfig.el", then I contradict no. 1.

==> Currently I cannot use Customize to edit org-mode customization.

So I'm suggesting a new variable like 'org-custom-file' or something,
which is used to save only the customization for org-mode. Something
like Mew already does. I think this would be logical also, because
org-mode by definition has lots of customizations, which are not only
options affecting its behaviour on the current system, but are the base
for its use. To put it in other words, many of the other Emacs modes
function without any specific customizations, but org-mode is hardly
functional without your own tags, remember template definitions, agenda
file lists etc. In that sense, the customization data is more closely
linked to the actual org-files than than the specific instance of Emacs
on a particular system, and therefore it would be logical to have it in
a separate file.

Hope I made my point this time...

Harri K.

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Re: Re: R: WISH: separate org-mode customization file

[John Rakestraw]

Hi Harri --

> So I'm suggesting a new variable like 'org-custom-file' or something,
> which is used to save only the customization for org-mode. Something
> like Mew already does. I think this would be logical also, because
> org-mode by definition has lots of customizations, which are not only
> options affecting its behaviour on the current system, but are the
> base for its use. To put it in other words, many of the other Emacs
> modes function without any specific customizations, but org-mode is
> hardly functional without your own tags, remember template
> definitions, agenda file lists etc. In that sense, the customization
> data is more closely linked to the actual org-files than than the
> specific instance of Emacs on a particular system, and therefore it
> would be logical to have it in a separate file.

I should say that I'm not an emacs guru, and that there are likely
others here who have a better way of doing this than what I'm about to
suggest. But I did something like it a couple of years ago when I was
running emacs on Linux at home and on Windows at work. I'm now on Linux
both places, so I've moved on. I no longer have the config files I
used, but I can still describe the basics of what I did:

--I had a basic .emacs file that began by loading the .emacs config
stuff common to both linux and windows.

--.emacs then tested for the system name of the machine I was on (I
think it was the variable "system-name"). If the name returned was that
of the Windows machine, then .emacs loaded something
like .emacs_windows. If it was the name of the linux machine, it
loaded .emacs_linux.

--As you'd guess, .emacs_windows included the system-specific emacs
configuration for the windows machine. .emacs_linux included the
system-specific information for the linux machine.

--I still have my org-specific config stuff org-init.el. You could do
that, and have it called next by .emacs.

--I didn't do this, but you could set the customization variable so
that customize settings are dropped into my.config.el. Your
common .emacs file could load this file.

Others might have a better way, but this worked fine for me as long as
I was on the two different systems.

Hope that helps.

-- 
John Rakestraw

Re: Re: R: WISH: separate org-mode customization file

[Sebastian Rose]

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> In that sense, the customization
> data is more closely linked to the actual org-files than than the
> specific instance of Emacs on a particular system, and therefore it
> would be logical to have it in a separate file.

So why not use one?

The problem is to sync your customizations from host to host. As for me,
the handish setup is something to be avoided - it makes emacs a mystery
for new users - so do lot's of strange configuration files (I wish
~/etc/ would be part of the FSHS :))




This is what I do:

I'm contentedly using .emacs :)

So I just can use 'M-x customize' to customize org-mode and that's it.
Is there anything more convenient than customize?

So. How to use emacs on different machines?

My .emacs is under monotone and thus the same on all my systems
(monotone is very handy for repos on USB-sticks or SSH. Hardly any
setup at all... monotone keeps the file's masks, even if the USB-Stick
is FAT formated - it's great!). I always carry my USB-Stick with me.

My .emacs is actually linked in my ~/emacs/ (as ~/emacs/.emacs) which is
under monotone. So are .bbdb and .gnus.el... (I have my gnus-mails under
monotone too).


I use custom files just for my own stuff that cannot be
adjusted using 'customize'. I therefor have this in my .emacs:

(setq sr-lisp-directory "/home/sebastian/emacs/lisp/")
(setq load-path (cons sr-lisp-directory load-path))
(setq load-path (cons (concat sr-lisp-directory "ext/org-mode/lisp/") 
load-path))
...

The last one is the local clone of org's git repo. I just call 'make' in
there and that's it (It's in the load path BEFORE the org that comes
with emacs).


(require 'sr-globals)
;; end of .emacs


loads my central custom file, which in turn loads several files like
sr-org-mode.el where I set up todo sequences and stuff. You also could
use

(load /path/to/my/org-init.el)
;; end of .emacs



Just leave the section

(custom-set-variables
   ;; custom-set-variables was added by Custom.
....

alone and that's it.




You might want to put this here into you're .bash_logout (if you use
bash):

cd ~/emacs/gnus
mtn add --unknown . # Add new mails
mtn commit -m""     # commit all changes, indluding customize.
                     # Remember the link to ~/.emacs
mtn sync            # sync to USB-Stick. Never forget to sync.
cd -


Simple :)



John Rakestraw schrieb:
> --I had a basic .emacs file that began by loading the .emacs config
> stuff common to both linux and windows.
> 
> --.emacs then tested for the system name of the machine I was on (I
> think it was the variable "system-name").

It is. I do this to get around different screen resolutions at the
very top of my .emacs (that I use on three machines):

(if (string-match "orgon" (system-name))
     (progn
       (set-default-font "DejaVu Sans Mono-13") ;; 14' @ 1024x768
       (setq line-spacing 1)
       (setq default-frame-alist ....)))
   (if (string-match "kassiopeia" (system-name)) ;; 19' @ ??
       (progn
         (set-default-font "DejaVu Sans Mono-11")
         (setq line-spacing 3)
         (setq default-frame-alist .....)))
     ;; else beteigeuze - 15' @ 1400x1050
       (set-default-font "DejaVu Sans Mono-13.5")
       (setq default-frame-alist ...))))



This is the only difference between the 3 machines and their
emacs-setup.





Have fun,

Sebastian

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Re: Re: R: WISH: separate org-mode customization file

[Eddward DeVilla]

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Harri Kiiskinen <harkiisk@utu.fi> wrote:
> Thank you all for the answers, but it seems that I was not quite clear
> enough. I'm quite able to set the 'custom-file' to whatever I want, and
> I can (load "myconfig.el") - which is what I currently do. Lets restate
> the problem:
>
> 1. I cannot and do not want to share _all_ customizations, since many of
> them are system specific - absolute paths, modes which function on Linux
> but not on XP (e.g. whizzy-tex), face settings etc.
> 2. I want to share org-mode customization, which is system independent,
> in my case. This I can do with (load "myconfig.el"), but the file has to
> be edited by hand, as the Emacs Customize for org-mode saves everything
> where 'custom-file' points to.
> 3. If I set 'custom-file' to "myconfig.el", then I contradict no. 1.
>
Sorry for not responding sooner.  I've had init split
(http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/InitSplit) suggested to me for
the same problem.  The thread might be in the archive.  I haven't had
a chance to set this up yet, so I can say if it is really usable.

Edd

Re: Re: R: WISH: separate org-mode customization file

[Tim O'Callaghan]

Its usable. In fact i'm still using it. I had forgotten i had posted
it into the emacswiki.

Here is my approach. The first thing to do is to consodate your emacs
directories into one place.

my .emacs contains this one instruction:
(load (expand-file-name (concat "~/.emacsen_d/init")))

On linux/unix ~/ is obvious. On Windows (x)emacs interprets the
environmental variable %HOME% as ~.
You can set this under Settings->Control
Panel->System->Advanced(tab)->Environmental Variables (Button)
In the user variables i have HOME set to C:\home\tim.

This load instruction then loads "c:\home\tim\.emacsen_d\init.el" under windows.

It should be noted that cygwin also uses this variable to find your
home directory, so you can have a windows and linux .bashrc too, but
that is another topic.

I use xemacs and emacs, on windows and linux, so my config files can
be a bit crowded. here is a cut down version of the init.el loaded
above:

----- my cut down emacs config -----

;; catch any initial errors
(setq debug-on-error t)

;; do not offer migration to xemacs
(custom-set-variables '(load-home-init-file t t))

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; set globals, and load init util functions
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;; to ensure customsation is in one place
(setq custom-file "~/.emacsen_d/custom.el")
;;(load custom-file)

;; default (x)emacs main directory
(defconst toc:emacsen-dir "~/.emacsen_d/" "Path to init.el directory")
(setq user-emacs-directory toc:emacsen-dir)

;; default (x)emacs configuration directory
(defconst toc:emacsen-config-dir "~/.emacsen_d/configs/"
  "Path to emacsen configuration fragments")

;; default machine (x)emacs configuration directory
(defconst toc:emacsen-machine-config-dir
"~/.emacsen_d/configs/machine_configs/"
  "Path to emacsen machine specific configuration fragments")

;; default (x)emacs site lisp directory
(defconst toc:emacsen-site-lisp-dir "~/.emacsen_d/site-lisp/" "Path to
emacsen lisp includes")

;; load named+saved keyboard macros
(load (expand-file-name (concat toc:emacsen-dir "toc-macros")))
;; load elisp utility functions
(load (expand-file-name (concat toc:emacsen-dir "toc-util-fns")))
;; snipped from toc-util-fns for context
;; utility finction to auto-load my package configurations
(defun toc:load-config-file (filelist)
  (dolist (file filelist)
    (load (expand-file-name
           (concat toc:emacsen-config-dir file)))
     (message "Loaded config file:%s" file)
     ))

;; utility finction to auto-load my package configurations
(defun toc:load-machine-config-file nil
  (interactive)
  (setq machine-file (expand-file-name
                      (concat toc:emacsen-machine-config-dir (getenv
"COMPUTERNAME") ".el")))
  (cond ((file-exists-p machine-file)
         (load machine-file)
         (message "Loaded config file:%s" file)))
  )

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; personal usibility customisations   ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;; set up initial load path
(toc:add-to-load-path '(""))

;; startup at home
(progn (cd "~"))

;; make the y or n suffice for a yes or no question
(fset 'yes-or-no-p 'y-or-n-p)

;; setting the defualt tab expansion size
(setq default-tab-width 8)

;; ensure that all tabs are created as spaces.
(setq-default indent-tabs-mode nil)

;; loose the startup message
(setq inhibit-startup-message t)

;; ensure messages are kept
(setq message-log-max t)

;; So I always have the proper number of parenthesis
(cond ((featurep 'xemacs)
       (paren-set-mode 'paren))
      ((featurep 'emacs)
       (show-paren-mode 1)))

;; So gnuserv works
(cond ((featurep 'emacs)
       (server-start)))

;; allow multiple minibuffers
(setq minibuffer-max-depth nil)

;; So we can see pound signs ok
(if (featurep 'xemacs)
    (standard-display-european t))
(if (featurep 'emacs)
    (prefer-coding-system 'utf-8))

;; highlighting regions and delete.
(delete-selection-mode)

(if (featurep 'xemacs)
    (setq zmacs-regions t)
  (transient-mark-mode 1))

;; set the colors and frame properties
(toc:load-config-file '("frames_config"
                        "keymaps_config"
                        "colour-theme_config"))

;; set any platform/(x)emacs specific properties
;; such as executbale paths, env variables and
;; info paths
(cond
 ((eq system-type 'windows-nt)
  (toc:load-config-file '("win2k_config"))
  )
 ;; otherwise try for maximum screenage
 (t
  (toc:load-config-file '("linux_config"))
  ))

;; load my configuration defaults
(toc:load-config-file '(
;; ediff files
                        "ediff_config"
;; set up session and dektop handling
                        "desktop_config"

;; set up remote file handling
                        "backup_config"
                        "modemaps_config"
                        "eshell-dired_config"

;; for ecb and suchlike
                        "ecb_config"
                        "speedbar_config"
;; for Xml & html & other mixed modes
                        "mmm_modes_config"
                        "xml_config"
;; spelling config.
                        "spell_config"
;; bookmarks config.
                        "bookmark_config"
;; XEmacs packages config.
                        "Xpackages_config"
;; pim config
;                       "personal_muse_settings"
;                        "elsevier_muse_settings"
                        "diary_config"
;; muse
;                        "muse_config"
;; planner-muse
;                        "planner-muse-remember_config"
;; org-remember
                        "org-remember_config"

;; web browser config
;;                        "w3_config" ;; rolled into org
;; mail user agent.
;                        "mutt_config"
;                        "gnus_config"
;                        "mew_config"
;                        "wanderlust_config"

;; work/machine specific config.
                        "tramp_efs_angeftp_config"
                        "elsevier_config"
;                        "lime_config"
;                        "telfort_config"

;; Java developmetn
                        "jde_config"
;; Perl Development
;                        "pde_config"
;                        "perlysense_config"

;; programming specific configs.
;                        "sqlmode_config"
;                        "template_config"
                        "doxygen_config"
                        "OOabrevs"
;; thumbs config
;                        "dired_thumbs_config"
;; final settings
                        "info_config"
                        "fontlock-face_config"
;; filladapt config
;                        "filladapt_config"

;; symbian programming config
                        "symbian_config"
;; Printing config
                        "printer_config"

                        ))

;;
;; The things to do at the end of the init process..
;;

;; load machine specific configs
(toc:load-machine-config-file)

;; call frame maximuze post init:
(toc:post-init)

;; turn off debugging
(setq debug-on-error nil)

----- end of cut down emacs config -----

Feel free to ask questions if you dont get it.

Tim.


2008/7/2 Eddward DeVilla <eddward@gmail.com>:
> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Harri Kiiskinen <harkiisk@utu.fi> wrote:
>> Thank you all for the answers, but it seems that I was not quite clear
>> enough. I'm quite able to set the 'custom-file' to whatever I want, and
>> I can (load "myconfig.el") - which is what I currently do. Lets restate
>> the problem:
>>
>> 1. I cannot and do not want to share _all_ customizations, since many of
>> them are system specific - absolute paths, modes which function on Linux
>> but not on XP (e.g. whizzy-tex), face settings etc.
>> 2. I want to share org-mode customization, which is system independent,
>> in my case. This I can do with (load "myconfig.el"), but the file has to
>> be edited by hand, as the Emacs Customize for org-mode saves everything
>> where 'custom-file' points to.
>> 3. If I set 'custom-file' to "myconfig.el", then I contradict no. 1.
>>
> Sorry for not responding sooner.  I've had init split
> (http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/InitSplit) suggested to me for
> the same problem.  The thread might be in the archive.  I haven't had
> a chance to set this up yet, so I can say if it is really usable.
>
> Edd
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>

Re: Re: R: WISH: separate org-mode customization file

[Harri Kiiskinen]

Eddward DeVilla wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Harri Kiiskinen <harkiisk@utu.fi> wrote:
>> Thank you all for the answers, but it seems that I was not quite clear
>> enough. I'm quite able to set the 'custom-file' to whatever I want, and
>> I can (load "myconfig.el") - which is what I currently do. Lets restate
>> the problem:
>>
>> 1. I cannot and do not want to share _all_ customizations, since many of
>> them are system specific - absolute paths, modes which function on Linux
>> but not on XP (e.g. whizzy-tex), face settings etc.
>> 2. I want to share org-mode customization, which is system independent,
>> in my case. This I can do with (load "myconfig.el"), but the file has to
>> be edited by hand, as the Emacs Customize for org-mode saves everything
>> where 'custom-file' points to.
>> 3. If I set 'custom-file' to "myconfig.el", then I contradict no. 1.
>>
> Sorry for not responding sooner.  I've had init split
> (http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/InitSplit) suggested to me for
> the same problem.  The thread might be in the archive.  I haven't had
> a chance to set this up yet, so I can say if it is really usable.
> 
> Edd

Thanks all,

InitSplit did just the trick I was looking for.

As the documentation of it is quite bad, I'll include my current setup 
as an usage example, just in case someone else is interested.

from .emacs:
---

(load "initsplit")
(load "~/emacs_customs/font-latex")
(load "~/emacs_customs/bibtex")
(load "~/emacs_customs/org")

(custom-set-variables
;; This you can do with customize:
;; M-x customize-variable initsplit-customizations-alist
  '(initsplit-customizations-alist (quote (("org-" 
"~/emacs_customs/org.el" t) ("bibtex-" "~/emacs_customs/bibtex.el" t) 
("font-latex-" "~/emacs_customs/font-latex.el" t))))
)

---

The code can be abstracted more, but then it gets unclear to beginners 
like me...


Best Wishes,

Harri K.