From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id aCVaGFoWoF9jMAAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 02 Nov 2020 14:23:22 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id qBBRFFoWoF9cEwAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 02 Nov 2020 14:23:22 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC073940149 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 14:23:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:35438 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kZajw-0003XU-PB for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 02 Nov 2020 09:23:20 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37598) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kZajP-0003J2-6u for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Nov 2020 09:22:47 -0500 Received: from hiwela.pair.com ([209.68.5.201]:29280) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kZajN-00060l-Ab for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Nov 2020 09:22:46 -0500 Received: from hiwela.pair.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hiwela.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9896980574; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 09:22:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from minshall-entroware-apollo.cliq.com (unknown [188.58.100.115]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by hiwela.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5D5858F0850; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 09:22:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from apollo2.minshall.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minshall-entroware-apollo.cliq.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B568C60882; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 17:22:39 +0300 (+03) From: Greg Minshall To: Eric S Fraga Subject: Re: Thoughts on the standardization of Org In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Nov 2020 12:39:36 +0000." <87zh40aq5z.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7.1; GNU Emacs 27.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1187706.1604326959.1@apollo2.minshall.org> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2020 17:22:39 +0300 Message-ID: <1187707.1604326959@apollo2.minshall.org> Received-SPF: softfail client-ip=209.68.5.201; envelope-from=minshall@umich.edu; helo=hiwela.pair.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/11/02 09:22:41 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = FreeBSD 9.x or newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -11 X-Spam_score: -1.2 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: ns3122888.ip-94-23-21.eu Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=umich.edu (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.91 X-TUID: XEMehd5yzg0I Eric, i was thinking of replying to your earlier post on the power of emacs. now i guess i'll ask my question or make my vague point or whatever. i wonder if it's possible (ignoring the possible utiltiy) to divide org mode into two (maybe three?) things. first is "org mode as a document structuring [hierarchy, tables, lists] and markup [links, ??? -- maybe it's all part of "document structure"] technique. (versus, possible "third": agenda, task manager. [that i'm not all that familiar with.]) versus org mode as a computing environment (== "org mode as life", which is to a large extent true for me, as well). the border between these divisions is, of necessity (i suspect) fairly fluid. but, i wonder if one could draw a useful boundary at "babel execute". i.e., on one side, one is definitely in "computing environment". (and, in my notes on your earlier e-mail: "what about calc, used in table formulae?". which you also mention.) i'm neutral on the issue of standardization (though i agree with Daniele Nicolodi that standardization might not bring what everyone wants). i will note that for many years the C language was not a formal "standard", but people figured out how to write "portable" code that worked with the major compilers and runtime environments. (it's nicer today that, e.g., C is an international standard, but that wasn't the first step towards "interoperability".) my bias is i'd love to see "everybody" able to export *and* tangle an org document, possibly within a limited subset, such as those that don't require babel-execute for that purpose. cheers, Greg