From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: tsd@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) Subject: Re: Citations, continued Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2015 18:43:22 -1000 Message-ID: References: <87vbjmn6wy.fsf@berkeley.edu> <8761blm6n8.fsf@berkeley.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51918) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YI8rQ-00023W-VC for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Feb 2015 23:43:46 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YI8rN-0001GR-LD for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Feb 2015 23:43:44 -0500 Received: from gproxy2-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com ([69.89.18.3]:60010) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YI8rN-0001Dy-ED for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Feb 2015 23:43:41 -0500 In-Reply-To: <8761blm6n8.fsf@berkeley.edu> (Richard Lawrence's message of "Sun, 01 Feb 2015 17:41:47 -0800") List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Richard Lawrence Cc: "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" , John Kitchin Aloha Richard, Richard Lawrence writes: > My point is not that the link syntax *can't* do enough. Rather, my > point is that citations are conceptually distinct from links, and if we > are going to adopt an official syntax for them, that syntax should > reflect this conceptual distinction. This is better for document > authors, because it is less work for us. It gives us the right tool for > this particular job, instead of re-purposing a tool that, despite its > power, is designed for a different job. It is thus better for the Org > community as a whole. I agree that citations are conceptually distinct from links, but at the same time they share many features. Both can refer to something outside the Org mode document. Both can be replaced in the Org mode export with something from outside the Org mode document. The fact that links can be made to handle most users' citation needs is practical proof that the similarities are more than superficial. Now, I agree with you that Org mode links are not ideal for citations. Parsing the description is humbug and error-prone, and the descriptions look ungainly in the Org mode document. I never remember to click citation links in the "right" place! There is much room for improvement here. You and others are advocating a separate syntax for links and citations, which might indeed be the way to go. I can see it being much nicer than the current state of affairs with Org mode links. The downside is that it will mean learning another set of rules, in addition to the existing rules for links. Several years ago, Samuel Wales suggested an extensible syntax example using link features (https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2010-08/msg00404.html). At the time it seemed to me that this was a Lisp-y approach because it solved particular problems by generalizing or abstracting a language feature to include particulars that had previously fallen outside its ken. I wanted something like this while I was working on implementing citation links for export to LaTeX. Would it be feasible to generalize Org mode's link syntax, or make it extensible, so the overlap of link with citation is complete? All the best, Tom -- Thomas S. Dye http://www.tsdye.com