From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: tsd@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) Subject: Re: Citation syntax: a revised proposal Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 13:50:28 -1000 Message-ID: References: <87k2zjnc0e.fsf@berkeley.edu> <87bnkvm8la.fsf@berkeley.edu> <87zj8co3se.fsf@berkeley.edu> <87ioezooi2.fsf@berkeley.edu> <87mw4bpaiu.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <8761aznpiq.fsf@berkeley.edu> <87twyjnh0r.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87oaopx24e.fsf@berkeley.edu> <87k2zd4f3w.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87egpkv8g9.fsf@berkeley.edu> <877fv6xfaq.fsf@gmail.com> <87h9u8jr8i.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33823) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YR8Cg-00085V-EH for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 18:50:51 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YR8Cd-00059A-7b for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 18:50:50 -0500 Received: from gproxy9-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com ([69.89.20.122]:38801) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YR8Cc-00058x-QY for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 18:50:47 -0500 Received: from [72.253.144.27] (port=56560 helo=manifi) by box472.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1YR8CN-0007XS-TO for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 16:50:32 -0700 In-Reply-To: <87h9u8jr8i.fsf@gmail.com> (Aaron Ecay's message of "Thu, 26 Feb 2015 21:30:05 +0000") List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Hi Aaron, Aaron Ecay writes: > Hi Thomas, > > 2015ko otsailak 25an, "Thomas S. Dye"-ek idatzi zuen: >>=20 >> BibLaTeX has 6 standard "subtypes", which it calls "standard commands". >>=20 >> A citation style can provide any number of specialized commands in >> addition to the 6 standard commands. >>=20 >> The various citation styles that ship with BibLaTeX together include >> seven specialized commands, for a total of 13. > > I count roughly 50 commands in sections 3.7.1 =E2=80=93 3.7.6 of the bibl= atex > user=E2=80=99s manual (version 2.9a of 24/06/2014). Some of these are qu= ite > esoteric, of course, but they are all provided. >>=20 >> In this design, the potential explosion in subtypes has been pretty well >> kept in check. Does that make the design of BibLaTeX a good model for >> Org mode? > > I don=E2=80=99t know, but I suspect not. Latex allows users to create po= werful > macros, but has relatively few built-in niceties (some are provided by > auctex and friends, but that=E2=80=99s separate). Org=E2=80=99s macro fa= cilities, > though also powerful, are not well-integrated into its considerable > interactive features. > > By way of illustration, Biblatex (AFAICT) doesn=E2=80=99t provide a posse= ssive > citation command, which was mentioned by someone in this thread (or its > predecessor) as a desideratum. I=E2=80=99d expect a savvy latex user to = put in > their preamble: > > \newcommand{\citeposs}[1]{\citeauthor{#1}=E2=80=99s (\citeyear{#1})} > > That doesn=E2=80=99t really work in org. (It could be put together with = an org > macro, but would lose the kind of click-to-view functionality that > org-ref already provides and which would be ported to the new syntax as > well.) > > Org needs to be smarter about anticipating users=E2=80=99 needs, because = it > doesn=E2=80=99t rely on them to program their own solution using the mark= up > language. And, insofar as all 50+ biblatex commands are actually > needed, it would be good to see if it=E2=80=99s possible to cut them into= more > digestible chunks. OK, you folks know this much better than I do. As an author, I'd much rather put together a citation style once and remember (or look up) a funky command name, than try to remember how to construct the style each time I make a citation. All the best, Tom --=20 Thomas S. Dye http://www.tsdye.com