From: Rainer M Krug <Rainer@krugs.de>
To: Brett Witty <brettwitty@brettwitty.net>
Cc: Org mailing list <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>, Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us>
Subject: Re: A Microsoftesque detail in org
Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 11:02:05 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <m27fs6w96a.fsf@krugs.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CANK_Tn-+QPSh6HCRTQpHTgozC9LuQAYKxxLTAYYy_Gdn39qgig@mail.gmail.com> (Brett Witty's message of "Mon, 18 May 2015 18:33:51 +1000")
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Brett Witty <brettwitty@brettwitty.net> writes:
> I agree with Rasmus' position. Just because the org format is plain text,
> doesn't mean the Emacs keybindings have to act identically to, say,
> Notepad. Otherwise, what's Emacs for? Similarly, I don't expect TAB to
> insert tabs into an org-mode document.
>
> While there can be a bit of a culture shock getting used to org's "do the
> useful thing" as opposed to "do the literal thing", I think it's an
> advantage of the system, not a disadvantage. Headers are sacred in
> org-mode, so breaking headers with RET seems suboptimal when there's vastly
> more things you'd care about. Similarly in tables, or drawers or timestamps
> or...
OK - this makes sense. But instead of jumping to the next line, a
splitting of the header into two would make more sense, keeping the
correct syntax.
Jumping to the next line is actually counter intuitive, as this is pure
movement.
Cheers,
Rainer
>
> That said, it would be nice to have some sort of customization variable to
> allow the literal behaviour, but set by default to the current behaviour
> (similar to org-support-shift-select).
>
> BrettW
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 7:15 AM, Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jarmo,
>>
>> Jarmo Hurri <jarmo.hurri@iki.fi> writes:
>>
>> > Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:
>>
>> >> With your behavior you can (i) break the TODO tag; (ii) break the
>> cookie;
>> >> (iii) break the tag. At least (i) and (ii) are quite destructive.
>> >
>> > I am not sure what you mean, since a single undo will always heal the
>> > line again, regardless of where you break it.
>>
>> Sure. But that seems orthogonal to the problem at hand. Re (i): Assume
>> TODO is keyword. We don't know that TO is. Re (ii): [#B] is a cookie.
>> [#B is not. (iii) iii :tag: is a tag :ta is not. The editor should not
>> easily produce invalid syntax.
>>
>> In any case it's very easy to rebind keys in a hook. If you write a
>> org.texi patch on how to get purist keybindings we can add it.
>>
>> > I am a BIG fan of the Org mode slogan "Your life in plain text." The
>> > power of plain text has been demonstrated over and over again. You can
>> > run text manipulating commands on it, you can process it with a large
>> > array of different programming languages.
>>
>> Nobody is disputing that.
>>
>> > An undo is a basic text editing feature that everyone should
>> > know. Reassigning non-standard behaviour to the return key is - in my
>> > opinion - against the ideology.
>>
>> I see that you use Gnus. Did you by any change use RET to open the
>> article? It's bound to gnus-summary-scroll-up.
>>
>> In Emacs25, or maybe even before, RET in at least lisp mode started to
>> indent automatically via electric-indent-mode. Are you against this?
>>
>> What I will agree on is that it would be better if Org used more
>> "standard" mechanism and e.g. cleverly hooked newline. However, Org
>> targets a number of versions of Emacs (ATM: 23-25), making this hard.
>>
>> >> The attached patch re-enables breaks in region four of
>> >> org-complex-heading-regexp, i.e. from the cookie up to tags. A quick
>> >> test suggests it works nicely.
>> >>
>> >> WDYT?
>> >
>> > Given enough time, I could come up with a situation where I would run a
>> > keyboard macro in which I would expect the return key to break the line,
>> > regardless of where I was on that line (in a tag or whatever).
>>
>> In that case there's C-o C-e or M-x newline...
>>
>> > I am a very minor player in this game, but I would really, _really_ like
>> > Org to remain as true to it's slogan as possible.
>>
>> I'm still don't see this point. There's Org, "the format", which should
>> ideally be easy to use in any editor (I wrote a basic syntax parser for
>> texworks). It's plaintext. Then there's org-mode, the principal editor
>> of Org. It supposed to be a nice environment for composing text.
>>
>> —Rasmus
>>
>> --
>> This is the kind of tedious nonsense up with which I will not put
>>
>>
>>
--
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)
Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa
Tel : +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44
Cell: +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98
Fax : +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44
Fax (D): +49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44
email: Rainer@krugs.de
Skype: RMkrug
PGP: 0x0F52F982
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-05-18 9:02 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 27+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-05-15 9:35 A Microsoftesque detail in org Jarmo Hurri
2015-05-15 9:57 ` Rainer M Krug
2015-05-15 11:16 ` Doug Lewan
2015-05-15 11:27 ` Rasmus
2015-05-16 8:05 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-05-16 15:28 ` Rasmus
2015-05-16 17:26 ` Titus von der Malsburg
2015-05-16 19:00 ` Rasmus
2015-05-16 21:43 ` Titus von der Malsburg
2015-05-17 13:25 ` Rasmus
2015-05-17 20:24 ` Jarmo Hurri
2015-05-17 21:15 ` Rasmus
2015-05-18 0:39 ` Titus von der Malsburg
2015-05-18 3:40 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-05-18 12:15 ` Jarmo Hurri
2015-05-18 8:33 ` Brett Witty
2015-05-18 9:02 ` Rainer M Krug [this message]
2015-05-18 9:48 ` Rasmus
2015-05-18 11:29 ` Rainer M Krug
2015-05-18 13:07 ` William Denton
2015-05-18 14:37 ` Suvayu Ali
2015-05-18 15:39 ` Rasmus
2015-05-19 9:39 ` Suvayu Ali
2015-05-20 23:04 ` Rasmus
2015-05-15 19:29 ` Titus von der Malsburg
2015-05-15 20:27 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-05-16 3:43 ` Bob Newell
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