From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id cPgTAX5P8WDsnQAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 11:21:02 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id hxJiOH1P8WC9YAAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 09:21:01 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 005471E393 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 11:21:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:49566 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m4K1j-0005zB-0j for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 05:20:59 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40542) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m4K0x-0005nC-3Y for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 05:20:11 -0400 Received: from basilikum.nobis-admin.de ([89.238.71.130]:39906) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m4K0t-0005iN-FM for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 05:20:10 -0400 From: Stefan Nobis DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=snobis.de; s=default; t=1626427202; bh=gwwHfZjDXG34GP4NpEi8hFrSSm5/SCSZWZMWsJLhVoc=; h=From:To:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=UqWz/Hq7xXHLNg+WYIFYh8pIHn7GH6a4HMMJn01xbg2Eot7MuK8s5PNsSaTXMRb05 wProiKmAJuCyjaKAVWBLqsi8FtoIreN0t6xN/rHVYWgQ2jJjuHk0WEs0DiFFXrmM21 II8hbO2UYEfGfy8/jexEuHpXAu+KU761b49muyEQ= To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: org-mode export to (latex) PDF References: <5A0DCCA5-7B49-46CC-BD49-B5F0D46DA5B8@traduction-libre.org> <87pmvq8ef2.fsf@posteo.net> Mail-Followup-To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 11:20:02 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Maxim Nikulin's message of "Fri, 16 Jul 2021 00:10:19 +0700") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=89.238.71.130; envelope-from=stefan-ml@snobis.de; helo=basilikum.nobis-admin.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1626427261; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=gwwHfZjDXG34GP4NpEi8hFrSSm5/SCSZWZMWsJLhVoc=; b=NQTNPNzbtk0w8x6Mk9XEHmm6Zxd6merqYB9U+nG3SVnIX6fb278U6mpwiNXqx8/brR9RtG GrN6uSPoKs57uZud51klmVUikrflpMDlCRlL7BTLF0DfcbP4G9zE+tB/IwljFS/rtS8WGS UhFplNcet7pQgBixA0vhJs+0qdG0BGYOo7TWjm3qizI9dR/HsKtIu547x5TuI5umZcYWCT SkE/X/UrXtOyQHCd5Ax/Dlz1XV8jMQs+5JQhKMMvXA7iFlXXUzgG0p243iYj5JB61ndXoA Fbb3ntajv1QCvpH4/AxgFW4rD9VkWGVNAehg/g8xFCumZ8vEwG4KrELd8EeN5A== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1626427261; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=kbM4Cn2RXq5eMFE1bRZIvoWcNnH+O4HDxiWH09x4Mv1RHAv7AdtQhdzEmkrVceAIJ3Sa20 E/clJy/Kspqkx8uQLULcdSiofvJZHNSXSOj6TKx6ehL65yENzKUtxa2BwhWvkTE8+fH7Xe yQ66scGq1cBCDohTm1a+3Uvt3X93pidpMO1eFPeYgs/Xa9EAkEffbyHQofpChOsVDVXB24 eKJ985kpftgtBS56Sw47/DF8cNBiqJ2quk4b5RUDW7vPrd39BQzB0Pv8FX9BupZdSnDGQD LRIKhbLOEalzbVLERJ2662vR0dQ/cgGyDDnJ6pJlATWNsJCGV7wENv+InkoyZg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=snobis.de header.s=default header.b="UqWz/Hq7"; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=snobis.de; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.10 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=snobis.de header.s=default header.b="UqWz/Hq7"; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=snobis.de; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 005471E393 X-Spam-Score: -3.10 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: oFyaK98+M+yb Maxim Nikulin writes: > Do Unicode TeX engines support such combination of fonts? Yes, they do. My rather long response was due to my impression that you are quite surprised that not everything is supported with the default configuration as you expected. I wanted to highlight that it is even today a rather hard problem to mix different scripts (even if typographic quality does not matter) and that there are quite different expectations of what a sensible default should look like. > There are two quite distinct cases: documents with carefully chosen > fonts (e.g. a book) and everyday notes when particular font is not > so important. Yes, indeed. And I hope you see that these two requirements are not easily satisfied with the same default configuration (and I would say this is a understatement). The LaTeX community has chosen to prefer a minimum typographic quality for their defaults and the majority still concentrates more on latin scripts. And as I said: A good multi-lingual support for Org is a really huge undertaking. Unicode alone solves only a rather minor part of these challenges. > I mean detection if LuaLaTeX or XeLaTeX is usable from Org code. Org should be rather flexible about the configured engines. There are reasons why today all three engine are quite alive and used by different users. I think it would be possible to improve the support for all three engines, make the selection easier for the Org user and go some first steps in better supporting different scripts and languages. But it is not easy and not a matter of a handful lines of code. > Randomly chosen examples: "日本", "多喝水", "📞". The last glyph ("TELEPHONE RECEIVER") is not visible for me. Remember, that Unicode gets expanded quite often and it is not easy for font developers to keep up. I still think that the expectation, that Org and/or LaTeX will support the whole Unicode range out of the box is a little bit too far fetched. -- Until the next mail..., Stefan.