From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id aAzZB9eE22MSDwAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 02 Feb 2023 10:39:35 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id QIW/B9eE22ODXgAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 02 Feb 2023 10:39:35 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C26121C12 for ; Thu, 2 Feb 2023 10:39:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pNW3f-0004BC-Kq; Thu, 02 Feb 2023 04:39:07 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pNW3c-0004AU-6N for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2023 04:39:04 -0500 Received: from basilikum.nobis-admin.de ([89.238.71.130]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pNW3Z-0005Xs-AD for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2023 04:39:03 -0500 From: Stefan Nobis DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=snobis.de; s=default; t=1675330736; bh=Xcw1Yg+dJqvBvuWUrMFNzu6Sub7R1PAVuYyOeQViS9w=; h=From:To:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=vVu/nStL+csFSZR2TIXg/AO6gFmnaYoZZJ8ESZzSTAUZa+wr1nhMl7bICC0+MmowB p5XgLd0iJ23/UWo+VWlzNsL3vD/SsQDt4GZKE5nu6pp3gMAruOLtrJr+r48U1AHB/g QTj/10XQAhTn2Prj2bvsUjw0c8daOiEflpU+XIU0= To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info References: <63c671c0.a70a0220.61aa5.56b8@mx.google.com> <87fsc88aq9.fsf@localhost> <63c7dd3d.170a0220.6b4d6.f84f@mx.google.com> <877cxk6oeu.fsf@localhost> <63c86454.170a0220.80970.652d@mx.google.com> <63c8f5a6.170a0220.ea8cf.7f96@mx.google.com> <63c9b654.170a0220.d82d2.4254@mx.google.com> <87mt6e86sr.fsf@tsdye.online> <63c9d976.620a0220.a7d40.113b@mx.google.com> <87tu0mjb24.fsf@tsdye.online> <63ca1283.170a0220.5bc81.0fdd@mx.google.com> <87pmb9k8oi.fsf@tsdye.online> <3035CDD5-41DD-4516-9E4E-9E0DF16BE2E0@gmail.com> <87lelo8c9r.fsf@localhost> <2150768.1675077958@archlinux> <87tu063ox2.fsf@localhost> <87a61wn23k.fsf@tec.tecosaur.net> <87357oqvm5.fsf@localhost> Mail-Followup-To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2023 10:38:55 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87357oqvm5.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Thu, 02 Feb 2023 09:12:18 +0000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=89.238.71.130; envelope-from=stefan-ml@snobis.de; helo=basilikum.nobis-admin.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1675330774; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=WPvwja5k5ixG1/cMbZqc1K9SEKWE+AP0rZICwFccJurhQSGevobBxwNeXLGA8wcTx+BZvw LO8bIq7rN/QaU6+zNMxruiLzPnBwpwy8xk5GIU+K5+qJKk4p6mJHqOt6No1vSSTG1/Xwdj hyO+GFEsivoNeAeecTbrKp0bwNddvYSsMVwQgsSnf/6UsoY//XULw0Qxovefajz+c7GqpA +SQIZRD4EvlyjJ7kIVN/SGMqfcs3D19BqCX8MlZI/cfMSex9RariEjrGSNnTHhqqVeFCiF GSVrCMu12Mjz/CTzuri2Wy/cGLrTxUtR76BSJ2egdMokPMeYnryEbjO98D6ddA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=snobis.de header.s=default header.b="vVu/nStL"; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=snobis.de ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1675330774; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=4DB7GbBqPYwPceP0EOm+MzDV+qrzrKVk5m/TMmP4XfQ=; b=YPSeN9CpGXu9Mm2Ho8oek58DACPafWJZ3W/xJXSjQ/4IZHFA/oNQRrN3tP0e/Qmt+2c0aC xKRM4arh7Ey6yR+IVPH4WLm2UAiCPsZhDUK/7TY2WBXk9Tivw2uWqiMcynFe4JrVuYmGB2 dQjBODy128/4eUybG9Zz2fJfhvA/om6I9geH2iHkSKTxBTZqQt+e7/dOFIGVfky0bOxjR5 Agu2/adaLakcz7f8GBf04TZaGB6+k/zsEabCQuLMi8kReb3y5ySQ5ppw+nC53nnX5hpzEQ fRubzwc7NVWaU8njqLIkEE2r9P5GQRWV4wsJd3Rwd8wjfScfAWJFpOIkWVOHEA== X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.58 X-Spam-Score: -2.58 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 9C26121C12 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=snobis.de header.s=default header.b="vVu/nStL"; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=snobis.de X-TUID: WBiyqQ+ilRoG Ihor Radchenko writes: > Note that an alternative is > [2022-11-12 10:30-11:00] > [2022-11-12 10:30-11] > [2022-11-12 10:30-11:00-11] > which is much less confusing. Hmmm... is it? I read a lot different timestamps these days and currently I'm very careful reading them, especially while considering syntax details. Therefore I'm reading slowly and only few timestamps at once. But real life sometimes get hectic and stressful. And then I might only throw a glance at timestamps, hoping to get the important details - surely I will remember all the important details. :) In these cases I would much prefer a syntax that is a bit less terse like > [2022-11-12 10:30 @+02] So I would vote for Timothys variant. Considering Timothys other proposal: >> I like the way that combining these features works, but I do wonder if perhaps >> warning when these two bits of information don’t match should be the default >> behaviour, and the `!' used to specify which of them should be prioritised? I do not like the semantics. >> ┌──── >> │ [2022-11-12 12:00 @+07,Asia/Singapore] # warn when mismatch >> │ [2022-11-12 12:00 @+07,!Asia/Singapore] # use Asia/Singapore over +07 I read "@+07,!Asia/Singapore" as "use UTC offset +07 but be aware of time zone Asia/Singapore, from which I got the offset in the first place". On the other hand, I read "@+07,Asia/Singapore" as "use UTC offset +07, which I got from the Asia/Singapore time zone". So for me a possible warning should go with the "!" variant. In the case without "!", for me the syntax suggests a more informative meaning for the time zone name part. Therefore I would vote for Ihors variant for this part. :) -- Until the next mail..., Stefan.