From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id AA0SDoEvUGH9YgEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 10:29:53 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id iP6ICYEvUGFUewAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 08:29:53 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 709802E2F1 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 10:29:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:47138 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUPXi-0002cO-Cz for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 04:29:50 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47954) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUPXJ-0002cF-LS for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 04:29:25 -0400 Received: from basilikum.nobis-admin.de ([89.238.71.130]:45416) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUPXH-0005jE-H1 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 04:29:25 -0400 From: Stefan Nobis DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=snobis.de; s=default; t=1632644957; bh=pKZu6QY1lQC4o8UPGjxtIbL2vBzfdGQ74HW2yechgYo=; h=From:To:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=Zb0hQqPP1hm0ZI4o29pqxXMb76RAF8C4ZfXriHWv184Y7ZItA5E/R1jMrntsFKz8B TGCffCyzRJQeF6TK/S1SnWzS8tKbEFHzgr2RrpVpsRsNm7rNAZR3lGRRy+GrdwCZL0 cxXlLwhg099GKnXM8XTtWbC6hSzXs9Gd41MIlpqo= To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [Worg] Proposing a few CSS changes References: <87fstud7ho.fsf@alphapapa.net> <87pmswe7ur.fsf@gmail.com> <87wnn4npdc.fsf@alphapapa.net> <87o88gdm82.fsf@gmail.com> <87sfxropnl.fsf@alphapapa.net> Mail-Followup-To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2021 10:29:16 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87sfxropnl.fsf@alphapapa.net> (Adam Porter's message of "Sun, 26 Sep 2021 00:46:06 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=89.238.71.130; envelope-from=stefan-ml@snobis.de; helo=basilikum.nobis-admin.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1632644992; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=pKZu6QY1lQC4o8UPGjxtIbL2vBzfdGQ74HW2yechgYo=; b=Kz2hHS81pcu+Q9R8GlG7hIDdC61n2zAhucYV6Vd+31aM2BGQxuFUAMalPAz7YyvJ4t4xwj 9zieXmjTsrVGxl5KgNOmBcYOxowCIzGypdbFqbfMQk6u1eZtibPF6sMg9ErUfGVkArQ4DS UxqMcAYHn9zqIfzeSOA96CSR9g9DKPFN55OBiGBpuRuilEdDt2CKK0OAyIJziDo4gPfsVw Xf1jw8SjgxtrB2NJ63ZZ/NebDeZB1Y5EU9Wa5f+FvRASzFYm/rqYgX6xBazp00L6IsrtN9 Le4x5DvSp6CfwXj5zEuU9aeFWy3sw7u8lrkR1uO+iGQ4lAQhku0qqaz+wLeHcQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1632644992; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=bxcJC28+wri6b8OxLWoDhspjpRNXoRormsRFOIR3tGb05wHwchK41ciEi9boJIw8J8UbG2 UW0kgPnmpViG75Rf1ChKFStYlGmhwzRBtLz/mPE+eToafTAOjPslMFKoSe/bj6uLm2Pxj4 nTKA+inSbG7XKHV2zhHI9nrFz0IfmAMHVVNqhw/iXI9ALCsMCwWpD5AlAAtlfimvd5mXvz oBKr+NTpB1IqxRsetDLWdKr1ZHtpjdXnPIV5ktDDzUYlqaIFEh1O4UMhaEptfdUHnLOU3K qHGBzK+iErWGF8mWlaGwF7ACKqYiTlrbqkRv5sWqnF5mAEsknLgbh2P22fySvA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=snobis.de header.s=default header.b=Zb0hQqPP; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.49 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=snobis.de header.s=default header.b=Zb0hQqPP; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=snobis.de; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 709802E2F1 X-Spam-Score: -2.49 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: Z2jzld7KmzxC Adam Porter writes: > So I think it's very important to respect the user's settings, > especially for long texts and documentation (i.e. not the "home page" > parts of Web sites whose purpose is to present projects as a whole). +1. HTML pages are neither books nor PDFs nor advertising columns. I have a LaTeX background and I like to tweak the micro-typography of my PDF documents (and I find many documents out there quite ugly and hard to read). Therefore I think I understand and kind of sympathize with Timothoys point of view. But the web is quite a different beast. User choices like Window/viewport size, fonts (serif, non-serif, size,...) are way too often ignored and even battled against. Sometimes I get the impression, that every time a web designer gets informed about a new way for users to override design decisions they try to block these possibilities - and in most cases to the disadvantage of users. Yes, today seldom people play with the font settings in their browsers. But why? I think, because they see that these settings seem to never really work. Even if you configure your browser to ignore font settings from HTML/CSS and always use the browser settings, many pages will be next to unreadable - the layout breaks down, if the wrong fonts/sizes are used. Therefore I support Adams wish to honor the configuration of users. The web should be more seen as a documentation system, not an installation of art. -- Until the next mail..., Stefan.