* desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
@ 2009-01-16 1:41 Samuel Wales
2009-01-16 2:13 ` Matthew Lundin
` (3 more replies)
0 siblings, 4 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Samuel Wales @ 2009-01-16 1:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs, emacs-orgmode
I have noticed more people using boxquote and similar ways of setting
off code. This makes it pretty and makes it stand out, both of which
are good things.
However, most prefix every line. For example, boxquote by default uses "|".
While an experienced user can figure out rectangle commands or write a
command to unpack the quote, new users and users who can't type much
might skip using the code to avoid having to do that. And a very new
user could actually stick the whole thing in .emacs and wonder why it
doesn't work. It adds to the burden of fixing a problem or meeting a
need in emacs without providing much benefit. Even a few keystrokes
can do that.
Perhaps quotes of code, in all packages like boxquote, could by
default get fancy only on the lines precediing and following.
What do you think?
--
For personal gain, myalgic encephalomyelitis denialists are knowingly
causing massive suffering and 25-years-early death by grossly
corrupting science.
http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/What_Is_ME_What_Is_CFS.htm
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
2009-01-16 1:41 desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users Samuel Wales
@ 2009-01-16 2:13 ` Matthew Lundin
2009-01-16 2:32 ` Austin Frank
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Matthew Lundin @ 2009-01-16 2:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Samuel Wales; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs, emacs-orgmode
Hi Samuel,
"Samuel Wales" <samologist@gmail.com> writes:
> I have noticed more people using boxquote and similar ways of setting
> off code. This makes it pretty and makes it stand out, both of which
> are good things.
>
> However, most prefix every line. For example, boxquote by default uses "|".
>
> While an experienced user can figure out rectangle commands or write a
> command to unpack the quote, new users and users who can't type much
> might skip using the code to avoid having to do that. And a very new
> user could actually stick the whole thing in .emacs and wonder why it
> doesn't work. It adds to the burden of fixing a problem or meeting a
> need in emacs without providing much benefit. Even a few keystrokes
> can do that.
>
> Perhaps quotes of code, in all packages like boxquote, could by
> default get fancy only on the lines precediing and following.
>
> What do you think?
I hadn't thought of that. I started using boxquote because I was
looking for an easier way to set off code. But if it's a nuisance or a
problem to new users, then I'd be happy to modify the variable
boxquote-side accordingly.
Something like this perhaps?
,----
(setq boxquote-side " ")
`----
What do others think? Is this readable enough?
The only downside is that the cursor has to be on the beginning or
ending line for commands such as boxquote-unbox or boxquote-yank or
boxquote-narrow-to-boxquote to work.
Best,
Matt
>
> --
> For personal gain, myalgic encephalomyelitis denialists are knowingly
> causing massive suffering and 25-years-early death by grossly
> corrupting science.
> http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/What_Is_ME_What_Is_CFS.htm
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
2009-01-16 1:41 desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users Samuel Wales
2009-01-16 2:13 ` Matthew Lundin
@ 2009-01-16 2:32 ` Austin Frank
2009-01-16 3:34 ` Matthew Lundin
2009-01-16 4:41 ` Kevin Rodgers
2009-01-16 9:56 ` Tassilo Horn
3 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Austin Frank @ 2009-01-16 2:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1550 bytes --]
On Thu, Jan 15 2009, Samuel Wales wrote:
> I have noticed more people using boxquote and similar ways of setting
> off code. This makes it pretty and makes it stand out, both of which
> are good things.
>
> [snip]
>
> What do you think?
For anyone using gnus, I think a good alternative is to use
message-mark-inserted region. Select a region and hit C-c M-m to get
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
a region set apart in this manner.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
If you use a prefix on the command, C-u C-c M-m, you get slrn style
verbatim marks,
#v+
resulting in a region set a part in this manner.
#v-
Gnus gives nice highlighting in buffers containing sections like these.
Even for mail readers that don't recognize them, I think at least the
first is a good way of setting examples apart from the rest of the text.
FWIW, I do like boxquote for quoting excerpts from Info pages. On an
info page, put some text into the kill ring (I use kill-ring-save, which
is M-w in my setup). Then call M-x boxquote-info.
,----[ (info "(message)Insertion") ]
| `C-c M-m'
| Mark some region in the current article with enclosing tags. See
| `message-mark-insert-begin' and `message-mark-insert-end'. When
| called with a prefix argument, use slrn style verbatim marks
| (`#v+' and `#v-').
`----
Just my $0.02.
/au
--
Austin Frank
http://aufrank.net
GPG Public Key (D7398C2F): http://aufrank.net/personal.asc
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
2009-01-16 2:32 ` Austin Frank
@ 2009-01-16 3:34 ` Matthew Lundin
0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Matthew Lundin @ 2009-01-16 3:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Austin Frank; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Austin Frank <austin.frank@gmail.com> writes:
>
> For anyone using gnus, I think a good alternative is to use
> message-mark-inserted region. Select a region and hit C-c M-m to get
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> a region set apart in this manner.
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> If you use a prefix on the command, C-u C-c M-m, you get slrn style
> verbatim marks,
>
> #v+
> resulting in a region set a part in this manner.
> #v-
These are great tips. Thanks!
- Matt
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
2009-01-16 1:41 desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users Samuel Wales
2009-01-16 2:13 ` Matthew Lundin
2009-01-16 2:32 ` Austin Frank
@ 2009-01-16 4:41 ` Kevin Rodgers
2023-08-18 20:46 ` Samuel Wales
2009-01-16 9:56 ` Tassilo Horn
3 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Kevin Rodgers @ 2009-01-16 4:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Samuel Wales wrote:
> I have noticed more people using boxquote and similar ways of setting
> off code. This makes it pretty and makes it stand out, both of which
> are good things.
>
> However, most prefix every line. For example, boxquote by default uses "|".
>
> While an experienced user can figure out rectangle commands or write a
> command to unpack the quote, new users and users who can't type much
> might skip using the code to avoid having to do that. And a very new
> user could actually stick the whole thing in .emacs and wonder why it
> doesn't work. It adds to the burden of fixing a problem or meeting a
> need in emacs without providing much benefit. Even a few keystrokes
> can do that.
>
> Perhaps quotes of code, in all packages like boxquote, could by
> default get fancy only on the lines precediing and following.
>
> What do you think?
,----[ C-h f boxquote-unbox RET ]
| boxquote-unbox is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `boxquote.el'.
| (boxquote-unbox)
|
| Remove the boxquote that contains `point'.
|
| [back]
`----
--
Kevin Rodgers
Denver, Colorado, USA
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
2009-01-16 1:41 desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users Samuel Wales
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2009-01-16 4:41 ` Kevin Rodgers
@ 2009-01-16 9:56 ` Tassilo Horn
3 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Tassilo Horn @ 2009-01-16 9:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
"Samuel Wales" <samologist@gmail.com> writes:
Hi Samuel,
> While an experienced user can figure out rectangle commands or write a
> command to unpack the quote, new users and users who can't type much
> might skip using the code to avoid having to do that. And a very new
> user could actually stick the whole thing in .emacs and wonder why it
> doesn't work. It adds to the burden of fixing a problem or meeting a
> need in emacs without providing much benefit. Even a few keystrokes
> can do that.
>
> Perhaps quotes of code, in all packages like boxquote, could by
> default get fancy only on the lines precediing and following.
>
> What do you think?
I think the best you can do is: Use boxquote for citations of
key/function/variable/info docs, but for code use
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(defun foo (a b)
(if (> a b)
(* a b)
(foo (foo (- b a) a) (- a b))))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
which is
,----[ C-h k C-c M-m ]
| C-c M-m runs the command message-mark-inserted-region, which is an interactive
| compiled Lisp function in `message.el'.
|
| It is bound to C-c M-m, <menu-bar> <Message> <Insert Region Marked>.
|
| (message-mark-inserted-region beg end &optional verbatim)
|
| Mark some region in the current article with enclosing tags.
| See `message-mark-insert-begin' and `message-mark-insert-end'.
| If verbatim, use slrn style verbatim marks ("#v+" and "#v-").
`----
That's highlighted by gnus (and some other readers), too, and you can
simply copy & paste it somewhere. It even tells you where to cut! ;-)
Bye,
Tassilo
--
In an average living room there are 1,242 objects RMS could use to write
an OS, including the room itself.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
2009-01-16 4:41 ` Kevin Rodgers
@ 2023-08-18 20:46 ` Samuel Wales
0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Samuel Wales @ 2023-08-18 20:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Kevin Rodgers; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs, emacs-orgmode
On 1/15/09, Kevin Rodgers <kevin.d.rodgers@gmail.com> wrote:
>> However, most prefix every line. For example, boxquote by default uses
>> "|".
>>
>> While an experienced user can figure out rectangle commands or write a
>> command to unpack the quote, new users and users who can't type much
>> might skip using the code to avoid having to do that. And a very new
>> user could actually stick the whole thing in .emacs and wonder why it
>> doesn't work. It adds to the burden of fixing a problem or meeting a
>> need in emacs without providing much benefit. Even a few keystrokes
>> can do that.
>>
>> Perhaps quotes of code, in all packages like boxquote, could by
>> default get fancy only on the lines precediing and following.
>>
>> What do you think?
>
> ,----[ C-h f boxquote-unbox RET ]
> | boxquote-unbox is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `boxquote.el'.
> | (boxquote-unbox)
> |
> | Remove the boxquote that contains `point'.
> |
> | [back]
> `----
thanks for your suggestion.
as i said, i am suggesting that the prefixed lines should never be
prefixed in the first place. i don't think it adds enough to outweigh
the extra keystrokes, rectangle, boxquote package, etc. i don't think
all newcomers will know what to do.
imho, above and below quoting is a preferable default convention.
exceptions are few and can be optional.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
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2009-01-16 1:41 desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users Samuel Wales
2009-01-16 2:13 ` Matthew Lundin
2009-01-16 2:32 ` Austin Frank
2009-01-16 3:34 ` Matthew Lundin
2009-01-16 4:41 ` Kevin Rodgers
2023-08-18 20:46 ` Samuel Wales
2009-01-16 9:56 ` Tassilo Horn
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