* org-meta-return
@ 2013-02-20 19:32 42 147
2013-02-20 19:40 ` org-meta-return Suvayu Ali
0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: 42 147 @ 2013-02-20 19:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
Invaluable command, but often I want to insert a new headline at point
that is one level down; i.e.:
*** topic_1
[COMMAND]
**** subtopic
As an expansion to:
*** topic_1
M-RET
*** topic_2
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: org-meta-return
2013-02-20 19:32 org-meta-return 42 147
@ 2013-02-20 19:40 ` Suvayu Ali
2013-02-20 21:17 ` org-meta-return 42 147
0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Suvayu Ali @ 2013-02-20 19:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 02:32:16PM -0500, 42 147 wrote:
>
> Invaluable command, but often I want to insert a new headline at point
> that is one level down; i.e.:
>
> *** topic_1
>
> [COMMAND]
>
> **** subtopic
M-RET M-<right>
--
Suvayu
Open source is the future. It sets us free.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: org-meta-return
@ 2013-02-20 21:17 ` 42 147
2013-02-20 21:57 ` org-meta-return Jonathan Leech-Pepin
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: 42 147 @ 2013-02-20 21:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Org Mode, Suvayu Ali
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> M-RET M-<right>
Appreciate the reply, but that's worse than what I was doing. M-<right>
is not anywhere close to my high frequency areas of finger activity.
I've changed all such keybindings.
I notice that C-M-RET is undefined. If anyone wants to add the
functionality as described in my original post, and bind it to that key
chord, I would be grateful; in the meantime, I'll create a macro /
interactive defun to do the same.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: org-meta-return
2013-02-20 21:17 ` org-meta-return 42 147
@ 2013-02-20 21:57 ` Jonathan Leech-Pepin
2013-02-20 22:33 ` org-meta-return Suvayu Ali
2013-02-20 22:59 ` org-meta-return Nick Dokos
2 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Jonathan Leech-Pepin @ 2013-02-20 21:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 42 147; +Cc: Org Mode
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Hello
On 20 February 2013 16:17, 42 147 <aeuster@gmail.com> wrote:
> > M-RET M-<right>
>
> Appreciate the reply, but that's worse than what I was doing. M-<right>
> is not anywhere close to my high frequency areas of finger activity.
> I've changed all such keybindings.
>
You can also use <TAB> on an empty headline to cycle through the various
levels:
+1 level, -1 level, -2..n levels (until it reaches the top level "*"), and
then back
to the level it was created at.
Regards,
Jon
I notice that C-M-RET is undefined. If anyone wants to add the
> functionality as described in my original post, and bind it to that key
> chord, I would be grateful; in the meantime, I'll create a macro /
> interactive defun to do the same.
>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: org-meta-return
2013-02-20 21:17 ` org-meta-return 42 147
2013-02-20 21:57 ` org-meta-return Jonathan Leech-Pepin
@ 2013-02-20 22:33 ` Suvayu Ali
2013-02-20 22:59 ` org-meta-return Nick Dokos
2 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Suvayu Ali @ 2013-02-20 22:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Org Mode
On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 04:17:48PM -0500, 42 147 wrote:
>
> I notice that C-M-RET is undefined. If anyone wants to add the
> functionality as described in my original post, and bind it to that key
> chord, I would be grateful; in the meantime, I'll create a macro /
> interactive defun to do the same.
Jon's suggestion is pretty good, but you can also do
(org-defkey org-mode-map (kbd "C-M-RET") 'my-interactive-defun)
where my-interactive-defun does what you want.
--
Suvayu
Open source is the future. It sets us free.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: org-meta-return
2013-02-20 21:17 ` org-meta-return 42 147
2013-02-20 21:57 ` org-meta-return Jonathan Leech-Pepin
2013-02-20 22:33 ` org-meta-return Suvayu Ali
@ 2013-02-20 22:59 ` Nick Dokos
2013-02-20 23:25 ` org-meta-return W. Greenhouse
2013-02-20 23:28 ` org-meta-return 42 147
2 siblings, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Nick Dokos @ 2013-02-20 22:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 42 147; +Cc: Org Mode
42 147 <aeuster@gmail.com> wrote:
> > M-RET M-<right>
>
> Appreciate the reply, but that's worse than what I was doing. M-<right>
> is not anywhere close to my high frequency areas of finger activity
> I've changed all such keybindings.
>
In all three keyboards I use regularly, <right> is fairly close to <RET>
(and to the right Control key): I can reach it fairly easily with my
right pinky, same as with <RET> - it does require a bigger stretch for
the full-size keyboards than it does on the laptop keyboard - although
I'm a sufficiently bad typist that I often have to resort to looking at
the keyboard in such situations, in which case I use my right index
finger (for <RET> as well as <right> or other arrow key).
That's not too bad because it's not as if this is a frequent activity
for me. Org's standard keymaps also use arrow keys fairly heavily, so
changing all of them sounds like a lot of work: I've tried swimming
against such tides before, but invariably I have given up exhausted,
gone back to the standard keymap and lived a much happier life.
Of course, these things are *highly* personal preferences, and you might
have a lower tolerance for pain than I have, but I have to ask: where
exactly is your <right> key relative to <RET>? How far
> I notice that C-M-RET is undefined. If anyone wants to add the
> functionality as described in my original post, and bind it to that key
> chord, I would be grateful; in the meantime, I'll create a macro /
> interactive defun to do the same.
>
If, despite my warnings, you still want to proceed, you can do something
like this (lightly tested) - add it to the end of your .emacs:
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(defun my-org-control-meta-return ()
"Assume we are in headline context: open a new headline one level
below the current one."
(interactive)
(org-insert-heading)
(org-metaright))
(defun my-org-mode-hook ()
(define-key org-mode-map (org-key [(control meta return)]) 'my-org-control-meta-return))
(add-hook 'org-mode-hook (function my-org-mode-hook))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
Although I use some org facilities above (org-key in particular), this
is a general process which you might want to add to your arsenal of
emacs techniques:
o Define a hook (a function of no arguments) and add it to the mode's
hook. When the mode is loaded, it runs its mode hook as the last thing
it does.
o The hook (re)defines a key in some keymap (org-mode-map above),
binding a function of your choosing to the key. It can of course do
other things as well (or in place of redefining keys).
o Finally, write the function that's to be bound to the key. This is
absolutely at your discretion: make it do whatever you want it to do
when you press that key.
Note however that org-meta-return checks the context that it is called
from and does the Right Thing (tm). my-org-control-meta-return just
assumes it's at a headline context and proceeds blindly, e.g. if you do
C-M-RET in a table, you'll probably mess up the table. Making it
bullet-proof is left as an exercise for the interested reader.
Read more about hooks at
(info "(emacs) Hooks")
Nick
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: org-meta-return
2013-02-20 22:59 ` org-meta-return Nick Dokos
@ 2013-02-20 23:25 ` W. Greenhouse
2013-02-20 23:28 ` org-meta-return 42 147
1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: W. Greenhouse @ 2013-02-20 23:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode-mXXj517/zsQ
Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos-VXdhtT5mjnY@public.gmane.org> writes:
> That's not too bad because it's not as if this is a frequent activity
> for me. Org's standard keymaps also use arrow keys fairly heavily, so
> changing all of them sounds like a lot of work: I've tried swimming
> against such tides before, but invariably I have given up exhausted,
> gone back to the standard keymap and lived a much happier life.
Nick's post was a great overview of how to customize keymaps in Emacs
(and why one might not want to do so). Just wanted to add that we have
two or three nearly complete alternate binding sets for org already:
(info "(org) TTY keys") and the speed commands (listed in the variable
`org-speed-commands-default'. The TTY keys in particular, although
lengthy, are pretty good at keeping one's hands on the keyboard (for
those of us who are serious touch typists and know what they're doing,
i.e. not myself).
--
Regards,
WGG
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: org-meta-return
2013-02-20 22:59 ` org-meta-return Nick Dokos
2013-02-20 23:25 ` org-meta-return W. Greenhouse
@ 2013-02-20 23:28 ` 42 147
2013-02-21 0:11 ` org-meta-return Nick Dokos
1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: 42 147 @ 2013-02-20 23:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nicholas.dokos; +Cc: Org Mode
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4794 bytes --]
> You can also use <TAB> on an empty headline to cycle through the various
> levels: +1 level, -1 level, -2..n levels (until it reaches the top level
> "*"), and then back to the level it was created at.
Good to know, but I ended up with a simple defun and org-mode-hook. Will
probably add what you said to my arsenal, however.
My hands might be smaller than average, or, at least, smaller than yours.
To reach <right> I must shift my entire arm to the right and
downward. To reach <RET> no such movement is necessary. Maybe a slight
turn of the wrist to the right.
> Of course, these things are *highly* personal preferences, and you might
> have a lower tolerance for pain than I have, but I have to ask: where
> exactly is your <right> key relative to <RET>?
Warning, digression:
I'm ultra cautious about finger / wrist strain. Even if I feel slight
discomfort from a keybinding, I will change it to be more ergonomic and
strain-free. Practically every basic Emacs movement command has been
rebound for optimum comfort as a QWERTY typist.
Many of the default Emacs keybindings are notational, not positional. For
example, C-p and C-n. I've made them all positional. C-p / C-] are now
paired together for previous-line / next-line. C-q / C-e for
beginning-of-line / end-of-line. From a positional standpoint, C-p / C-n
makes absolutely no sense.
2013/2/20 Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com>
> 42 147 <aeuster@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > M-RET M-<right>
> >
> > Appreciate the reply, but that's worse than what I was doing. M-<right>
> > is not anywhere close to my high frequency areas of finger activity
> > I've changed all such keybindings.
> >
>
> In all three keyboards I use regularly, <right> is fairly close to <RET>
> (and to the right Control key): I can reach it fairly easily with my
> right pinky, same as with <RET> - it does require a bigger stretch for
> the full-size keyboards than it does on the laptop keyboard - although
> I'm a sufficiently bad typist that I often have to resort to looking at
> the keyboard in such situations, in which case I use my right index
> finger (for <RET> as well as <right> or other arrow key).
>
> That's not too bad because it's not as if this is a frequent activity
> for me. Org's standard keymaps also use arrow keys fairly heavily, so
> changing all of them sounds like a lot of work: I've tried swimming
> against such tides before, but invariably I have given up exhausted,
> gone back to the standard keymap and lived a much happier life.
>
> Of course, these things are *highly* personal preferences, and you might
> have a lower tolerance for pain than I have, but I have to ask: where
> exactly is your <right> key relative to <RET>? How far
>
> > I notice that C-M-RET is undefined. If anyone wants to add the
> > functionality as described in my original post, and bind it to that key
> > chord, I would be grateful; in the meantime, I'll create a macro /
> > interactive defun to do the same.
> >
>
> If, despite my warnings, you still want to proceed, you can do something
> like this (lightly tested) - add it to the end of your .emacs:
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> (defun my-org-control-meta-return ()
> "Assume we are in headline context: open a new headline one level
> below the current one."
> (interactive)
> (org-insert-heading)
> (org-metaright))
>
> (defun my-org-mode-hook ()
> (define-key org-mode-map (org-key [(control meta return)])
> 'my-org-control-meta-return))
>
> (add-hook 'org-mode-hook (function my-org-mode-hook))
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> Although I use some org facilities above (org-key in particular), this
> is a general process which you might want to add to your arsenal of
> emacs techniques:
>
> o Define a hook (a function of no arguments) and add it to the mode's
> hook. When the mode is loaded, it runs its mode hook as the last thing
> it does.
>
> o The hook (re)defines a key in some keymap (org-mode-map above),
> binding a function of your choosing to the key. It can of course do
> other things as well (or in place of redefining keys).
>
> o Finally, write the function that's to be bound to the key. This is
> absolutely at your discretion: make it do whatever you want it to do
> when you press that key.
>
> Note however that org-meta-return checks the context that it is called
> from and does the Right Thing (tm). my-org-control-meta-return just
> assumes it's at a headline context and proceeds blindly, e.g. if you do
> C-M-RET in a table, you'll probably mess up the table. Making it
> bullet-proof is left as an exercise for the interested reader.
>
> Read more about hooks at
>
> (info "(emacs) Hooks")
>
> Nick
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: org-meta-return
2013-02-20 23:28 ` org-meta-return 42 147
@ 2013-02-21 0:11 ` Nick Dokos
2013-02-21 0:43 ` org-meta-return Suvayu Ali
2013-02-21 21:16 ` org-meta-return 42 147
0 siblings, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Nick Dokos @ 2013-02-21 0:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 42 147; +Cc: Org Mode
[Warning: off-topic]
42 147 <aeuster@gmail.com> wrote:
> My hands might be smaller than average, or, at least, smaller than yours.
> To reach <right> I must shift my entire arm to the right and
> downward. To reach <RET> no such movement is necessary. Maybe a slight
> turn of the wrist to the right.
>
I doubt my hands are bigger than yours: I have to do exactly what you
describe (at least on the bigger keyboards). It's just not as big a deal
for me as it is for you.
> > Of course, these things are *highly* personal preferences, and you might
> > have a lower tolerance for pain than I have, but I have to ask: where
> > exactly is your <right> key relative to <RET>?
>
> Warning, digression:
>
> I'm ultra cautious about finger / wrist strain. Even if I feel slight
> discomfort from a keybinding, I will change it to be more ergonomic and
> strain-free. Practically every basic Emacs movement command has been
> rebound for optimum comfort as a QWERTY typist.
>
> Many of the default Emacs keybindings are notational, not positional. For
> example, C-p and C-n. I've made them all positional. C-p / C-] are now
> paired together for previous-line / next-line. C-q / C-e for
> beginning-of-line / end-of-line. From a positional standpoint, C-p / C-n
> makes absolutely no sense.
>
Agreed - they are only mnemonically significant. And I think you are
right in taking precautions. As I said, I'm a sufficiently bad typist
so that all these sins have not bitten me (at least not yet - and they
are rapidly running out of time).
Have you tried a Dvorak keyboard? My son uses a QWERTY keyboard, mapped
in software to Dvorak - he learnt to touch type on one by switching
all the keycaps, although he didn't need the crutch
after a while, so his second keyboard has all the keycaps in the
standard places - they just produce different characters than what the
keycaps say. This had two advantages for him: the Dvorak placement
which reduces strain (supposedly at least), and the fact that I
couldn't say to him "Move over and let me drive for a while". I tried
a couple of times and I can still hear his laughter... I suspect
that unless one is an experienced Dvorak typist, it is a better security
device than many passwords :-)
I'm not sure a Dvorak keyboard would help with emacs chords though.
Another possibility is one of the funky Kinesis keyboards: a colleague
would wax ecstatic about his, but he was not an emacs user. And they
are too expensive to buy one just to try it out.
I'd be interested if somebody has tried either a Dvorak keyboard or
a Kinesis one with emacs - but this is way off-topic by now, so maybe
not.
Nick
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: org-meta-return
2013-02-21 0:11 ` org-meta-return Nick Dokos
@ 2013-02-21 0:43 ` Suvayu Ali
2013-02-21 1:10 ` org-meta-return Nick Dokos
2013-02-21 21:16 ` org-meta-return 42 147
1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Suvayu Ali @ 2013-02-21 0:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 07:11:38PM -0500, Nick Dokos wrote:
> [Warning: off-topic]
>
> 42 147 <aeuster@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > My hands might be smaller than average, or, at least, smaller than yours.
> > To reach <right> I must shift my entire arm to the right and
> > downward. To reach <RET> no such movement is necessary. Maybe a slight
> > turn of the wrist to the right.
> >
>
> I doubt my hands are bigger than yours: I have to do exactly what you
> describe (at least on the bigger keyboards). It's just not as big a deal
> for me as it is for you.
I do not see anyone mention pressing complicated key combinations with
both hands. I usually press control or meta keys with my left, and
character or arrow keys with my right. But maybe that is easier for me
since I use a pointing device sparingly.
--
Suvayu
Open source is the future. It sets us free.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: org-meta-return
2013-02-21 0:43 ` org-meta-return Suvayu Ali
@ 2013-02-21 1:10 ` Nick Dokos
2013-02-26 9:03 ` org-meta-return Eric S Fraga
0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Nick Dokos @ 2013-02-21 1:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Suvayu Ali; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Suvayu Ali <fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 07:11:38PM -0500, Nick Dokos wrote:
> > [Warning: off-topic]
> >
> > 42 147 <aeuster@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > My hands might be smaller than average, or, at least, smaller than yours.
> > > To reach <right> I must shift my entire arm to the right and
> > > downward. To reach <RET> no such movement is necessary. Maybe a slight
> > > turn of the wrist to the right.
> > >
> >
> > I doubt my hands are bigger than yours: I have to do exactly what you
> > describe (at least on the bigger keyboards). It's just not as big a deal
> > for me as it is for you.
>
> I do not see anyone mention pressing complicated key combinations with
> both hands. I usually press control or meta keys with my left, and
> character or arrow keys with my right. But maybe that is easier for me
> since I use a pointing device sparingly.
>
I hope everybody does that. I use both the left and right control keys depending
on where the "controlled" key is: C-whatever is always a two-hand operation for me.
M-x is not however (they are close enough so that left thumb and index can do the
job): both right and left Alt keys are mapped to meta so there is no reason it couldn't
be other than habit. But I probably should get out of the habit.
C-M-whatever is also a two handed operation except for C-M-x: left pinky, thumb and index
do the job, but again I should probably get out of that habit.
Nick
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: org-meta-return
2013-02-21 0:11 ` org-meta-return Nick Dokos
2013-02-21 0:43 ` org-meta-return Suvayu Ali
@ 2013-02-21 21:16 ` 42 147
2013-02-23 3:30 ` org-meta-return James Harkins
2013-03-02 20:43 ` org-meta-return Michael Brand
1 sibling, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: 42 147 @ 2013-02-21 21:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nicholas.dokos; +Cc: Org Mode
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3361 bytes --]
[continues off-topic]
> Have you tried a Dvorak keyboard?
A friend of mine ridicules me for being a QWERTY typist, but I have found
no empirical evidence that it is actually superior. At best, it has been
proven, in /some/ studies, to be /slightly/ superior; and from a
cost-benefit standpoint, /slight/ superiority according to /some/ studies
(and I should add, only at extreme speeds), is not worth relearning how to
type.
I should add, he, too, changed the default Emacs keybindings to be
positional. But he ended up changing /different/ defaults.
2013/2/20 Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com>
> [Warning: off-topic]
>
> 42 147 <aeuster@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > My hands might be smaller than average, or, at least, smaller than yours.
> > To reach <right> I must shift my entire arm to the right and
> > downward. To reach <RET> no such movement is necessary. Maybe a slight
> > turn of the wrist to the right.
> >
>
> I doubt my hands are bigger than yours: I have to do exactly what you
> describe (at least on the bigger keyboards). It's just not as big a deal
> for me as it is for you.
>
> > > Of course, these things are *highly* personal preferences, and you
> might
> > > have a lower tolerance for pain than I have, but I have to ask: where
> > > exactly is your <right> key relative to <RET>?
> >
> > Warning, digression:
> >
> > I'm ultra cautious about finger / wrist strain. Even if I feel slight
> > discomfort from a keybinding, I will change it to be more ergonomic and
> > strain-free. Practically every basic Emacs movement command has been
> > rebound for optimum comfort as a QWERTY typist.
> >
> > Many of the default Emacs keybindings are notational, not positional. For
> > example, C-p and C-n. I've made them all positional. C-p / C-] are now
> > paired together for previous-line / next-line. C-q / C-e for
> > beginning-of-line / end-of-line. From a positional standpoint, C-p / C-n
> > makes absolutely no sense.
> >
>
> Agreed - they are only mnemonically significant. And I think you are
> right in taking precautions. As I said, I'm a sufficiently bad typist
> so that all these sins have not bitten me (at least not yet - and they
> are rapidly running out of time).
>
> Have you tried a Dvorak keyboard? My son uses a QWERTY keyboard, mapped
> in software to Dvorak - he learnt to touch type on one by switching
> all the keycaps, although he didn't need the crutch
> after a while, so his second keyboard has all the keycaps in the
> standard places - they just produce different characters than what the
> keycaps say. This had two advantages for him: the Dvorak placement
> which reduces strain (supposedly at least), and the fact that I
> couldn't say to him "Move over and let me drive for a while". I tried
> a couple of times and I can still hear his laughter... I suspect
> that unless one is an experienced Dvorak typist, it is a better security
> device than many passwords :-)
>
> I'm not sure a Dvorak keyboard would help with emacs chords though.
> Another possibility is one of the funky Kinesis keyboards: a colleague
> would wax ecstatic about his, but he was not an emacs user. And they
> are too expensive to buy one just to try it out.
>
> I'd be interested if somebody has tried either a Dvorak keyboard or
> a Kinesis one with emacs - but this is way off-topic by now, so maybe
> not.
>
> Nick
>
>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: org-meta-return
2013-02-21 21:16 ` org-meta-return 42 147
@ 2013-02-23 3:30 ` James Harkins
2013-03-02 20:43 ` org-meta-return Michael Brand
1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: James Harkins @ 2013-02-23 3:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
42 147 <aeuster <at> gmail.com> writes:
> [continues off-topic]
>> Have you tried a Dvorak keyboard?
> A friend of mine ridicules me for being a QWERTY typist, but I have found no
empirical evidence that it is actually superior. At best, it has been
> proven, in /some/ studies, to be /slightly/ superior; and from a cost-benefit
standpoint, /slight/ superiority according to /some/ studies (and I should add,
only at extreme speeds), is not worth relearning how to type.
FWIW, and I'm well aware this is purely anecdotal evidence with a sample size of
1, after I switched to Dvorak some years ago, the difference in the amount of
strain and fatigue I felt in my fingers and wrists was (and still is) more than
slight. I know it's still the case because I have my customized Dvorak layout in
Linux (it's basically a mirror image, but slightly different from left-handed
Dvorak), but I never figured out how to replicate it in Windows 7. I don't have
to use win7 often, just for teaching some Windows-only software, so it hasn't
been worth digging through Microsoft documents. I've actually gotten a fair
amount of QWERTY speed back, but boy, I can sure feel how much more *work* it
is. The muscle movements flow in Dvorak, and they don't in QWERTY (not
surprising, since QWERTY's purpose was to slow typists down and prevent the
machinery from jamming).
I can believe that studies would find only a slight /speed/ improvement, but we
aren't talking about speed. We're talking about RSI pain. I'd at least question
the relevance of words/minute studies to measure reduction in muscle effort.
Studies of finger travel are more on point.
The cost of relearning to type is high, but the cost is temporary and the
benefits last the rest of your life.
Just my experience.
hjh
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: org-meta-return
2013-02-21 1:10 ` org-meta-return Nick Dokos
@ 2013-02-26 9:03 ` Eric S Fraga
2013-02-26 11:10 ` org-meta-return Sebastien Vauban
0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2013-02-26 9:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Nick Dokos; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> writes:
[...]
> I hope everybody does that. I use both the left and right control keys depending
> on where the "controlled" key is: C-whatever is always a two-hand operation for me.
> M-x is not however (they are close enough so that left thumb and index can do the
> job): both right and left Alt keys are mapped to meta so there is no reason it couldn't
> be other than habit. But I probably should get out of the habit.
As a previous sufferer of serious RSI, I always warn people against
key-chording that requires any contortion. C-M-x (with x=anything on
the left half of the keyboard basically) is a bad thing. In fact, often
anything with M- is bad for me. I tend to avoid such key chords. For
instance, for M-x, I have
(global-set-key '[(control x) (control m)] 'execute-extended-command)
Actually, in practice, I use evil-mode everywhere so I have practically
no key chords! For M-x, I type ", x"... I have defined a number of key
org commands into the evil key maps and I'm a happy camper!
--
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D
: in Emacs 24.3.50.1 and Org release_7.9.3f-1199-g3a0e55
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: org-meta-return
2013-02-26 9:03 ` org-meta-return Eric S Fraga
@ 2013-02-26 11:10 ` Sebastien Vauban
2013-02-26 13:16 ` org-meta-return Suvayu Ali
2013-02-26 15:54 ` org-meta-return Eric S Fraga
0 siblings, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Sebastien Vauban @ 2013-02-26 11:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode-mXXj517/zsQ
Eric,
Eric S Fraga wrote:
> Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos-VXdhtT5mjnY@public.gmane.org> writes:
>
> [...]
>
>> I hope everybody does that. I use both the left and right control keys
>> depending on where the "controlled" key is: C-whatever is always a two-hand
>> operation for me. M-x is not however (they are close enough so that left
>> thumb and index can do the job): both right and left Alt keys are mapped to
>> meta so there is no reason it couldn't be other than habit. But I probably
>> should get out of the habit.
>
> As a previous sufferer of serious RSI, I always warn people against
> key-chording that requires any contortion. C-M-x (with x=anything on the
> left half of the keyboard basically) is a bad thing. In fact, often anything
> with M- is bad for me. I tend to avoid such key chords. For instance, for
> M-x, I have
>
> (global-set-key '[(control x) (control m)] 'execute-extended-command)
>
> Actually, in practice, I use evil-mode everywhere so I have practically no
> key chords! For M-x, I type ", x"... I have defined a number of key org
> commands into the evil key maps and I'm a happy camper!
Quite a bit OT, but is it true that, for example, to type `C-whatever', we
should use both hands, one for `C' and the other for `whatever'?
Best regards,
Seb
--
Sebastien Vauban
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: org-meta-return
2013-02-26 11:10 ` org-meta-return Sebastien Vauban
@ 2013-02-26 13:16 ` Suvayu Ali
2013-02-26 15:54 ` org-meta-return Eric S Fraga
1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Suvayu Ali @ 2013-02-26 13:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 12:10:13PM +0100, Sebastien Vauban wrote:
>
> Quite a bit OT, but is it true that, for example, to type `C-whatever', we
> should use both hands, one for `C' and the other for `whatever'?
I determine that depending on the key combination. e.g. C-x or C-s I do
with my left hand with the left control key, but I do C-l, C-k, C-y, M-y
with two hands with the left control key. Somehow I have a preference
towards using control or meta keys with my left hand eventhough I find
the two handed version much more comfortable. Maybe it's time to
consciously switch to two handed key presses for everything.
--
Suvayu
Open source is the future. It sets us free.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: org-meta-return
2013-02-26 11:10 ` org-meta-return Sebastien Vauban
2013-02-26 13:16 ` org-meta-return Suvayu Ali
@ 2013-02-26 15:54 ` Eric S Fraga
1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2013-02-26 15:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Sebastien Vauban; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Sebastien Vauban <wxhgmqzgwmuf@spammotel.com> writes:
> Eric,
>
[...]
> Quite a bit OT, but is it true that, for example, to type `C-whatever', we
> should use both hands, one for `C' and the other for `whatever'?
Hi Seb,
Yes, just as one should do with the shift key. However, the problem
with C- is that the right control key is in random locations... I
should add that I always remap the CAPS lock to be my left Control key.
This whole topic may look like it is indeed OT (sorry!) but it is
actually quite relevant for org in that many key sequences are C- and M-
based, not to mention M-S-... Okay, maybe this is an emacs issue rather
than just org alone.
Luckily, for me, I have been able to remap the majority of the ones I
use (not that many) to single key strokes in evil's [1] /normal/ state
including < and > for org-metaleft and org-metaright. Prior to my using
evil full time, I made extensive use of the speek keys in org.
And, using evil mode allows me to use org more capably when on a TTY
interface, e.g. via ssh from my phone where M- is impossible and even
some S- keystrokes are inaccessible.
Footnotes:
[1] git://gitorious.org/evil/evil.git
--
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D
: in Emacs 24.3.50.1 and Org release_7.9.3f-1199-g3a0e55
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: org-meta-return
2013-02-21 21:16 ` org-meta-return 42 147
2013-02-23 3:30 ` org-meta-return James Harkins
@ 2013-03-02 20:43 ` Michael Brand
2013-03-02 23:59 ` org-meta-return 42 147
2013-03-03 10:44 ` org-meta-return Eric Abrahamsen
1 sibling, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Michael Brand @ 2013-03-02 20:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 42 147; +Cc: Org Mode
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 646 bytes --]
Hi John
On Feb 21, 2013 10:16 PM, "42 147" <aeuster@gmail.com> wrote:
> [continues off-topic]
>
> > Have you tried a Dvorak keyboard?
>
> A friend of mine ridicules me for being a QWERTY typist, but I have found
> no empirical evidence that it is actually superior. At best, it has been
> proven, in /some/ studies, to be /slightly/ superior; and from a
> cost-benefit standpoint, /slight/ superiority according to /some/ studies
> (and I should add, only at extreme speeds), is not worth relearning how to
> type.
Colemak is a much better keyboard layout than Dvorak. I have been using
Colemak for many years now with great pleasure.
Michael
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 799 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: org-meta-return
2013-03-02 20:43 ` org-meta-return Michael Brand
@ 2013-03-02 23:59 ` 42 147
2013-03-03 10:08 ` org-meta-return Michael Brand
2013-03-03 10:44 ` org-meta-return Eric Abrahamsen
1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: 42 147 @ 2013-03-02 23:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michael Brand; +Cc: Org Mode
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1319 bytes --]
Michael,
Did a little research on Colemak: appears to be (1) as or even slightly
more ergonomic than Dvorak, in terms of measurable results; and (2)
designed for QWERTY users.
That said, were you a QWERTY user before you transitioned into Colemak?
. . .
Does anyone here type Russian characters? I've started learning how to type
the alphabet using Cyrillic stickers on my keyboard, and it /seems/ to be
more ergonomically organized -- but perhaps that is just because I'm
systematically learning it, rather than intuitively, and over many years,
as I did with English QWERTY.
2013/3/2 Michael Brand <michael.ch.brand@gmail.com>
> Hi John
>
> On Feb 21, 2013 10:16 PM, "42 147" <aeuster@gmail.com> wrote:
> > [continues off-topic]
> >
> > > Have you tried a Dvorak keyboard?
> >
> > A friend of mine ridicules me for being a QWERTY typist, but I have found
> > no empirical evidence that it is actually superior. At best, it has been
> > proven, in /some/ studies, to be /slightly/ superior; and from a
> > cost-benefit standpoint, /slight/ superiority according to /some/ studies
> > (and I should add, only at extreme speeds), is not worth relearning how
> to
> > type.
>
> Colemak is a much better keyboard layout than Dvorak. I have been using
> Colemak for many years now with great pleasure.
>
> Michael
>
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1856 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: org-meta-return
2013-03-02 23:59 ` org-meta-return 42 147
@ 2013-03-03 10:08 ` Michael Brand
0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Michael Brand @ 2013-03-03 10:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 42 147; +Cc: Org Mode
Hi John
On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 12:59 AM, 42 147 <aeuster@gmail.com> wrote:
> That said, were you a QWERTY user before you transitioned into Colemak?
Yes.
Michael
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: org-meta-return
2013-03-02 20:43 ` org-meta-return Michael Brand
2013-03-02 23:59 ` org-meta-return 42 147
@ 2013-03-03 10:44 ` Eric Abrahamsen
1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2013-03-03 10:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
Michael Brand <michael.ch.brand@gmail.com> writes:
> Hi John
>
> On Feb 21, 2013 10:16 PM, "42 147" <aeuster@gmail.com> wrote:
>> [continues off-topic]
>>
>> > Have you tried a Dvorak keyboard?
>>
>> A friend of mine ridicules me for being a QWERTY typist, but I have
> found
>> no empirical evidence that it is actually superior. At best, it has
> been
>> proven, in /some/ studies, to be /slightly/ superior; and from a
>> cost-benefit standpoint, /slight/ superiority according to /some/
> studies
>> (and I should add, only at extreme speeds), is not worth relearning
> how to
>> type.
>
> Colemak is a much better keyboard layout than Dvorak. I have been
> using Colemak for many years now with great pleasure.
Whoa, that's what I was looking for! Keyboard layout taped to the wall,
typing this in Colemak now. Thanks for the tip.
E
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* org-meta-return
@ 2016-10-31 0:16 42 147
2016-10-31 11:10 ` org-meta-return Nicolas Goaziou
0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: 42 147 @ 2016-10-31 0:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
Hello,
I notice that org-meta-return now inserts a space between the new headline
and the previous headline. This was not the functionality before (not sure
which update changed it).
Either that, or I preferred defective functionality all along.
Any way to restore the old org-meta-return?
Thanks,
John
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: org-meta-return
2016-10-31 0:16 org-meta-return 42 147
@ 2016-10-31 11:10 ` Nicolas Goaziou
0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2016-10-31 11:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 42 147; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Hello,
42 147 <aeuster@gmail.com> writes:
> I notice that org-meta-return now inserts a space between the new headline
> and the previous headline. This was not the functionality before (not sure
> which update changed it).
Not sure to understand "before" what. In any case, wouldn't you be
looking for `org-blank-before-new-entry'?
Regards,
--
Nicolas Goaziou
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2016-10-31 11:10 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 23+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2013-02-20 19:32 org-meta-return 42 147
2013-02-20 19:40 ` org-meta-return Suvayu Ali
2013-02-20 21:17 ` org-meta-return 42 147
2013-02-20 21:57 ` org-meta-return Jonathan Leech-Pepin
2013-02-20 22:33 ` org-meta-return Suvayu Ali
2013-02-20 22:59 ` org-meta-return Nick Dokos
2013-02-20 23:25 ` org-meta-return W. Greenhouse
2013-02-20 23:28 ` org-meta-return 42 147
2013-02-21 0:11 ` org-meta-return Nick Dokos
2013-02-21 0:43 ` org-meta-return Suvayu Ali
2013-02-21 1:10 ` org-meta-return Nick Dokos
2013-02-26 9:03 ` org-meta-return Eric S Fraga
2013-02-26 11:10 ` org-meta-return Sebastien Vauban
2013-02-26 13:16 ` org-meta-return Suvayu Ali
2013-02-26 15:54 ` org-meta-return Eric S Fraga
2013-02-21 21:16 ` org-meta-return 42 147
2013-02-23 3:30 ` org-meta-return James Harkins
2013-03-02 20:43 ` org-meta-return Michael Brand
2013-03-02 23:59 ` org-meta-return 42 147
2013-03-03 10:08 ` org-meta-return Michael Brand
2013-03-03 10:44 ` org-meta-return Eric Abrahamsen
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2016-10-31 0:16 org-meta-return 42 147
2016-10-31 11:10 ` org-meta-return Nicolas Goaziou
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