From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Herbert Sitz Subject: Re: An Org-mode clone for Vim Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 23:30:40 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Return-path: Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=41264 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PEVkJ-0000Ul-Me for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Nov 2010 19:31:00 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PEVkI-0005XB-Nq for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Nov 2010 19:30:59 -0400 Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:60997) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PEVkI-0005Wx-CJ for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Nov 2010 19:30:58 -0400 Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PEVkE-0001YK-IV for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Nov 2010 00:30:55 +0100 Received: from c-24-22-131-140.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ([24.22.131.140]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 06 Nov 2010 00:30:54 +0100 Received: from hsitz by c-24-22-131-140.hsd1.wa.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 06 Nov 2010 00:30:54 +0100 List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org John Hendy gmail.com> writes: > > > Wow! This is pretty neat. You've done some really cool things. >   John -- Thanks for the kind words. I've responded to some of your comments below to clarify just what my project is and what it isn't. > > I started learning emacs only for org-mode and have never really used vim >except for editing a few config files when nano is not available. Since I >started with emacs and it has what I want (org-mode), I can't think of a >reason to learn yet another program with it's own set of shortcut > oddities :) I can relate to the shortcuts... Sometimes two in a row > involving ctrl makes me scratch my head. Though with emacs I'm > pretty sure you can literally change anything you want. > > Also, since you're using the export features of org-mode, > and as you said you can use vimperator or whatever to > emulate vim keystrokes in emacs... is there > anything really that you can do with the vim version that emacs > can't do? I completely understand #5 below -- do it just to > do it and it's fun. Other than that, though, aside from some > navigation differences and the (#_of_lines) at the > end of folded headers I was unsure what was to be different. > Now you work in vim and just call org-mode to export? >   You've got it right. For someone who is comfortable with Emacs and Org-mode there's no reason at all for them to be interested in what I'm doing. The appeal of my project is pretty much limited to those people who have a strong preference for using Vim rather than Emacs. Even the people who strongly prefer Vim, if they are heavy Org-mode users and depend on a wide range of it features and multitude of options, might have little use for my project in its current state. > 2.  Some people are of the opinion that, while Emacs is admittedly > a great > operating system/development environment, it lacks a decent text > editor.  ;) > > I've heard this but never understood what was being said. >   That comment is mostly an often repeated joke. I think it gets to a major difference between Emacs and Vim, which is that Emacs is used by many to become the central application they use, with all their sub-applications implemented in Emacs-lisp. Vim isn't really used that way, partly because it's not as suitable for it, and partly because its main author has taken a stance against that sort of use, in favor of a more Unixey-approach of merely interacting with outside applications. > > - Navigation. I definitely feel the emacs shortcut pain for certain > things. I don't mind exporting. I'm so used to it that > do C-x C-s C-c C-e p without blinking to publish to PDF. > But, I highly dislike things like C-c C-[n/p] or C-c C-[f/b] for > navigating headlines. Your arrow navigation was appealing, > perhaps only because I'm not as used to these shortcuts as > others. I find myself using two finger scroll, pg[up/dn] and > crtl+[right/left arrow] to move around much > more than the emacs built-in shortcuts. As I said earlier, > though, surely they can be changed...  I just haven't. Yes, I agree that having navigation keys as multi-keypress chord combination is sub-optimal. I'm sure remappings could be done in Org, hard thing might be deciding on what key combinations. The section-moving commands in Org-mode are already mapped to keys similar to the ones I use, don't require multi-keypress chords even now. > > Great work and very cool project. Thanks for sharing and I > really enjoyed the video! > Thanks again, Herb