From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id 2DGVC3ytIGMCnAAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2022 18:19:08 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id SCqvC3ytIGPhpAAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2022 18:19:08 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 547CB20D1B for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2022 18:19:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:39868 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oY8cs-0004mm-Af for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 13 Sep 2022 12:19:06 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55962) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oY8Xd-0002tr-Np for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Sep 2022 12:13:42 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:24364) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oY8Xa-00035H-BG for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Sep 2022 12:13:40 -0400 Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id C342B44126B; Tue, 13 Sep 2022 12:13:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 4E5B844125F; Tue, 13 Sep 2022 12:13:35 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1663085615; bh=CQM0Ilg1vF3VHvsGSMgZqryz99AO93aWT999uiNLO0Y=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=D8fYAxDbiiW0/FajHNcs14e8HY1HlhqvMB/q1HhFR1vsfc98EnwBHlMaXTT1WOPdj d0aMqHn2yubRdt8U+U7baEka9UgbO4Y2qwEGOWglUNPEgfmVSMCw2SQ0o269SVyv24 lGyZ37EohVyeql1bjRNs3k3bLkxMPDsIQf6LCgfoHzBuKPmTw4CGZ5KirrlitNSmmr yLzSMycUWWhcxgb9fp1DAI57by91SgX4yJuRNZsEbUgATyeeeThLCcBLrPL/7Dxtxn s8qfVgxxpvZLm+qU4KAcKL3GC9fmGm57ySfoMakYHg26vg3sjbrT7UcPW6Gx8Nul9n BJIeFpVc67w7w== Received: from lechazo (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3F43C120D46; Tue, 13 Sep 2022 12:13:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Ihor Radchenko Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: org-assert-version considered harmful In-Reply-To: <87tu5bbajh.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Tue, 13 Sep 2022 22:42:42 +0800") Message-ID: References: <875yhsujkq.fsf@localhost> <87h71ct10n.fsf@localhost> <87tu5bbajh.fsf@localhost> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 12:13:33 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1663085948; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=/AjB/i/a9XLZdA8gdBc+rJ0srGPEt6d5XiUGYAkcrPA=; b=M+oET60Og3DWG+0s2OEexTOPAyn0dPc/rh5QhfLdQfGFysYRGz0TRIob+FlSlBErK/f/it DTU1g9l5fHqnk4b/MJN1zJY7/2HhY5yXHsGDKPUpsNYTY5oG7j3oYokwGiAi9Gg+tsU8Pr zPAto8qwhH4r77hJq8/7/ydH+m6P9dyrr+MVz12IOUij/QF9OFnn668vcpQgycR67Y+xOy NrwJbgOHugb6q8SbKJPrc9Oc5NrnA+dx6pqWXo40Zio5Mb9sjap4ifzDm7bVsAzDpiDADQ LcVV8marwftDwRcQ8WwCRJgrfq/aqvd6gFxlMR5HvFTz54DpxQCNPazUli9b9w== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1663085948; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=lJm0cRx7+KMnBttJh8ydOxHqsdIJiqU8VLEv02EPoyfNt1PIDR0+unErJkNCUht6KEX5mx QO5o50b9OMr+IqAefULMrksTS+viihSztrYaK5qEYNrLiBdVWPEPQ+RY+bG3LrBK2MT0ro lBl5fqLjn8aUsNeku6Vyl4SCUVivejwHh7g+a4bacEwi9Ks4yrwXXoDcO/q05Scq+Dlh+y zSxJgnQOth/1i1p2b7CbK+s3RypEGV7HVw2XFWX44m5o/gI3xHEuvZQhjOe8rYJ1zPHuSP MyOUeQ3BVJq6g/I6VOw7gqh/GbfdoLPgiS9aF2K2ikijCErqtYEjai9DZs/sfA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=iro.umontreal.ca header.s=mail header.b=D8fYAxDb; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=iro.umontreal.ca; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.01 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=iro.umontreal.ca header.s=mail header.b=D8fYAxDb; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=iro.umontreal.ca; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 547CB20D1B X-Spam-Score: -5.01 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: zTtdKGj6KkdJ >> Yup. But there's no option to automatically find those dependencies in >> ELisp, and (IIRC from last time I looked at it, in many packages obeying >> such dependencies would end up introducing circular dependencies in >> the Makefile), so we'd have to depend on the package's author to provide >> a working set of file dependencies. > > It would be nice to have such an option. Agreed. The "last time" mentioned above, I looked at changing the byte-compiler to keep track of the macros that were expanded so we can auto-generate the dependencies. > At least, for the most critical macros. Something similar to > declare statements. But that also requires manual intervention :-( >> Hmm... after new-org-autoloads.el is loaded, the old-Org files will be >> relegated to "late in the `load-path`" (i.e. after the directory that >> holds the new-Org file) and should hence not be loaded any more (unless >> someone goes through the trouble to explicitly load an old-Org files >> with an absolute file name). > > I admit that I do not have sufficient knowledge about the autoload magic > Emacs uses when loading packages. > > For reference, one simple way to trigger "mixed" state of Org is doing > something like: > > 1. emacs -Q > 2. (require 'org) > 3. Add the newer Org version to load-path > 4. (require 'ob-python) > > When and which version of org-autoloads.el will be loaded in > such scenario? None :-( In my book step 3 above is a mistake (even if moved to step 2). The `org-autoloads.el` is the file that adds the dir to `load-path` (and in a normal ELPA install, that's the file that `package.el` loads for you at startup). So step 3 above is replaced by (load ".../org-autoloads"), and that's where the problem would be detected. But admittedly, that won't help users who made the mistake of manually adding to `load-path` :-( Stefan