From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id OJaALoNX62PTsAAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 10:42:27 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id wGh2LoNX62MYYAAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 10:42:27 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F363396C3 for ; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 10:42:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRroo-0002MN-3h; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 04:41:46 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRrom-0002Le-JQ for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 04:41:44 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRrok-0003VA-Ku for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 04:41:44 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.at; s=s31663417; t=1676367699; bh=ScC33MpWX5+Brauzsl248VlY165Gtkse9qN29vnFnOU=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=r7a97WXL9o7UGYZnRb5TW6QKzvFVe3SBNmKAeQ1ZHmlPS9G2st9puILK46Nyy9qzE BGvPUJUgwbZVtH66KGnubLX6vyZj2f9eTX64trO5pPRoxrE4k5cXtdC2Zh6Oo7snqn hZUitfxLCZySbXI3+Q0RIcCbMPRad2uSdopjZP3mMEYD0C84HPUBcgNIXmZG5L1OXD 4KdE6Qmj/TKvk26VMLlCuIKQf2Gxnx5Ptz978Ngh2EX1QmThTgiUOKUEG+QKAUlXh4 tuzsjNv5OQp04q6ejiktD91PVEdoCBS9ouzlRShOQgnh0sS1yZ4nJ2+UltYoLna8PC OTukPTsdqINLQ== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from [192.168.43.165] ([193.207.214.60]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MYeMj-1p4zLd3hvH-00VeH9 for ; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 10:41:39 +0100 Subject: Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org References: <87lelce6iu.fsf@localhost> <87357i9959.fsf@localhost> <877cwse95m.fsf@localhost> <878rh5eqz4.fsf@localhost> From: Heinz Tuechler Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 10:41:38 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:YQlIwZsV14pUDFYB/Th5yB/7FF1ItDiD6AIZECK6QVZ2NYa0yzE mMq4LFxaQAQt8Mmm1mZhuMPutJ7a2p1VnjV3ZuughbGfCsLP6N4t0oyeRaDRvXc36RfP4x+ lSAi6q9N+rISPb+B1ShvivkmC3NU6id9uAbDF1SDAUXrF7DGjNZyNQCv15Kz9bGgFmcK1hQ Wh7xtHPbtuhGxKoDKmelg== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:iiIPRGcdxO8=;EmLVF27KeFb1/UieojzeNjUx8I3 FojvZDKKKmNO3uPJfWt2/kj9dxnUV2Wj1jNqidKihotwqWtbIkmVzz3+xcE/4ROvVvtVOJ5xY FxWGABCcjW8ShhZPOoCSlcsD15K5oO3r8NsehR7pNxqIc5mQg3DVhWjWg376X2Re7tQi0RSHH moyVagVjsO+BT1AH7UmtNTYPfRyWMUthRiay8gY7/QLeJXnloGNB6W5oFKV4XdcvT/gcaqKjN i1bQkIUhn+qY37EWXLpPkYvSBgcGubf6mAKmo9WWYvee+eK8Qz6DKVcD2S4iJpM31IsnmQzLU C4d1yJnc7c1FPA3tT1TcliXmbkK3JgLk1B2CejgTCMT0O0vHtoew4MThvifU84gXm6Y80DWKY 6NgIKTucvAy+Iw/iGqm56BWC0fNWDibgLDjDXpHndvd/jz9L+WTifLFhSqNAX6Kn3Hv8YxiC8 RYuLfuI42fHua6q3CSx2tVG7yeeOzULDy3S5TQ+CtVoj9vrOBw1FyDGDofTCyv6MvMQttbW8p iViTibo2pb9b2zgPMFAH8y+wjPk+c4ZPpWWYJh2XMaYrPUEWc5LmPUVHdCQnKK4ObK1iTd2rK CDC5brxVXQpEcq1KyGBusu6ea5cKRqXsjRJH34Q/jbLxv3WL0BG+bA4mqE+WOjW1qQGTlPJlx GzBxkhq7Kyo3zQS6/CI5efngTVkQJceqwYFiw24BErwk1q1XYQpKgxS0Vc3D3RNNpounxanHW zjsPGYjspEsrAKFc5eGUWWhQmElf9Iss6NEHWsePP6qtr5RJssYAar3E46TNYpZj1LKi9wwcP 2J2GbnzXujHXORj5q8shpSOmgEkeKB9R2My/aX7PWGfHuepbS3REqjV+opCXkowmIhhaNfacw 09eVAixs93uUJhL4zT1p9yTjuTqkrcrGfpt7FvvZQkFJ3zD/diQfKzrDLaB6lhka8Qrp031I9 fOzBOg== Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.19; envelope-from=tuechler@gmx.at; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -30 X-Spam_score: -3.1 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.345, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1676367747; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=wzRv1UrXBf5/UegTXgNeVE2f5LKLYaAPvdrkxdxT/Bc=; b=GROAd1qXL87ISYe0wrkp6OG3bcN9zkVN+T3iON6gf0g/H8Ytt02oEYoegOV1iKDP/SvYU6 TjiTR74oUINlIbvYvzFwhwwObRbzLV8kuPYwf/53Y7d+AycqCh28kwoMFTe+OjMJLYdInY vn/mXKD28y8Xd2bYRLRUhwxknvtUN1W3+D6KjacPdOfeE2WJnGwHksvzexfK7jxc1cnK3k vqDVS46+GPy7aTKH+niV6IK1SO2rS1OZQclyd4wqLZx5t0yxlP5MhLiW8sLVLh6y9oxEEE L+5phQtVzsSYOWSV+Mp0hpF7UBeVyqxk9JyPNgWculisyRnAUF0QiptNwmbCMw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmx.at header.s=s31663417 header.b=r7a97WXL; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmx.at; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1676367747; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=SaW0D0yW0gbxL3+3dB9cRFuSoQOwuNGBe3f6p1gE+Be2WwkNUgSGwUAIaYP8JpLeFEWwWn T/KXaco2pMssPVYlVrR0UrGyTCVpVENl4Xhx6quCtNe4mPxRty3svq3hZVpPY776LYag5U 8LvWdjqV9LQZa+nlOJwzDYEOxk1NXo1AUjxP7xEEEydyZM+vx8ZvuJ11oX9/yUhxTWdnUE e0qemBUjmjcy0jr3i+yh8p/G0ZAN5CzfMlhCMPoG9C/ZC+kzp7aUt3kkoHo7jNOHItPii3 SyeSNuvIHp1U8b5tx3eeUTdqW0/mhX1tdXUszM2MtPNjP6ogBXWKZN4DOUKgjQ== Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmx.at header.s=s31663417 header.b=r7a97WXL; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmx.at; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -6.31 X-Spam-Score: -6.31 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 0F363396C3 X-TUID: ADQnhXJpHtum Jean Louis wrote/hat geschrieben on/am 14.02.2023 07:00: > * tomas@tuxteam.de [2023-02-12 16:50]: >> On Sun, Feb 12, 2023 at 12:33:40PM +0300, Jean Louis wrote: >>> * Ihor Radchenko [2023-02-10 13:48]: >>>> Jean Louis writes: >>>> >>>>> If you start adding in Org "fixed" time with UTC offset, that is a n= ew >>>>> type of timestamp, as it is not common in world. >>>> >>>> It is how ISO8601 defines offsets. >>> >>> - did you say you wish to represent time with UTC time zone by using >>> UTC offset? >>> >>> - and I said, UTC time is always without offset, and if any is >>> represented then it must be +00 >>> >>> - and now you say that ISO8601 defines offsets... sorry, you are >>> confusing me and readers. >> >> It is not about "the offset OF UTC". It is about "the offset >> RELATIVE TO UTC". > > Yes, surely is clear to me personally. If 2022-11-12 12:00+02 # 12:00 UTC+2 should mean that local time is 2022-11-12 12:00 and that it is 2 hours _ahead_ of UTC, then it seems intuitively clear to me. I would assume that holds for many others as well= . > > That we got for sure. > > Then just representation must be clear: @UTC is unclear in those > cases, but @RELTOUTC would be clear. > @RELTOUTC seems unfortunate, as it states only the obvious. If at all, it should be @AHEADUTC or @BEHINDUTC or some abbreviation of it, but as said above, it seems not necessary to me. Heinz