From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id VlcHHDIfrGApvgAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 24 May 2021 23:48:34 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id UDgfFzIfrGAyXwAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 24 May 2021 21:48:34 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B3A8526198 for ; Mon, 24 May 2021 23:48:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:56434 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1llIR6-0002Bc-P7 for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 24 May 2021 17:48:32 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51352) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1llIQa-0002BG-UX for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 24 May 2021 17:48:00 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:41017) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1llIQY-0004tm-I5 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 24 May 2021 17:48:00 -0400 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.239.4.220]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000000ADF02.0000000060AC1F0B.00004D82; Mon, 24 May 2021 14:47:55 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 00:46:35 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Nathaniel W Griswold Subject: Re: Quick help when pressing '?' in an agenda view? Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Nathaniel W Griswold , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org References: <9A2B419F-36BA-4C4F-BE8D-09A9E0684225@manicmind.earth> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <9A2B419F-36BA-4C4F-BE8D-09A9E0684225@manicmind.earth> User-Agent: Mutt/2.0.6 (2021-03-06) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1621892913; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=x03e32OuQCVskkcxqA/oLEp/s3lL1KIA6GBy4YT4M9s=; b=JAqBZMMxPyf1gHRl+dMv2TwSMgWb1RfGp3PXnPJf2gQo6B0hYhLvnXWU4sp7wfaxAIzJy/ UX0y5OyLVf6UekRzL2bloXmbic72IUyBwXujpou8CIc84rpy4AqtREWJAw652Uz6k1cehv GWipQju9hrL5O+Di5nGzMf9Bm+qGPyNL202ON8fIdNQdOw24DwCO8u+Jt9dtSjf0LInshV pB/3fjn8/2rRCAt5KO8Cxb2agBqxH0q152Pse05IAzBCJ4HfJB361B9uRNnsK9ICAViMTY S6C9MwE8cqleuBAyuPQ8sBQKKmS54TCcbcgBZQGvpzOKgoZPN1mHA0mRuoKZ1g== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1621892913; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=utNW2vYcBqZQKTAZFhZsbjlZWUsE//sopvRvRFlFOV93Cb7lgFHSem+ZiR2W0lfai8tSxf 5flw91mtm4HwhEvga5B67W/ImcZybg4zqbxiOvSeOzFQWWk8mLz/LDIk8Nrfyjh1MgHCjU NKhPSMYDAnoxLsU442H7SkdOzsaA9xG1ocqaxH1H4pYo9ZuMjsMMuM6VudikMpW7OTIJa8 fA1cKQ0DPjAd+kO+Htq618Ojh7ITCvM6j7CqZ8WgB98DJs0viQIXePWfl+Ad9dsLPFgY7R 0hPi0reUzpiJXcb2xik9011zkOUs5Q4aBUmf+UHLEg/wwNZoSad+zH+Rlz/I6w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.43 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: B3A8526198 X-Spam-Score: -1.43 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: FacX7F2xGReU * Nathaniel W Griswold [2021-05-24 15:08]: > I noticed that org-agenda-mode stands out in that '?' is not bound > to open some kind of help by default. Org agenda is unique in this, > it is the first out of many views i have used that did not have '?' > bound to open some kind of help. Seems to be convention in pretty > much anything builtin to emacs or added by third party that takes > over a buffer and interacts with the user. Some examples of builtin > are dired, list-buffers, ibuffer, list-bookmarks. You are right, that screen, but I find the Org export screen similar, is such static menu that just expects keybindings and nothing else. It is also in its meaning misrepresented as it is not just "agenda", the menu serves to search all of the Org files by any queries, not just for queries representing online planning. It gives difficulties to inspect itself by using standard Emacs keybindings like C-h k It would be good that Org agenda menu is displayed in Org buffer, but it is not... Example display: (define-derived-mode rcd-org-agenda-mode org-mode "RCD Org Agenda Mode" "Org Agenda in Org Mode") (define-key rcd-org-agenda-mode-map (kbd "q") 'quit-window) (define-key rcd-org-agenda-mode-map (kbd "m") 'org-tags-view) (defun rcd-org-agenda () "The RCD Org Agenda" (interactive) (let ((buffer-name "░▒▓▆▅▃▂▁ ORG AGENDA ▁▂▃▅▆▓▒░")) (switch-to-buffer (get-buffer-create buffer-name)) (setq header-line-format (concat buffer-name " ➜ finish with `q'")) (setq org-link-elisp-confirm-function nil) (read-only-mode 0) (erase-buffer) (insert buffer-name "\n") (center-line) (rcd-org-agenda-mode) (insert " 1. [[elisp:(org-agenda-list)][Org Agenda List]] - Display the agenda for current day or week. 2. [[elisp:(org-todo-list)][Org TODO List]] - Display the global TODO list. 3. [[elisp:(org-todo-list)][Org TODO List]] - Display the global todo list, select only entries with a specific TODO keyword (the user gets a prompt). 4. [[elisp:(org-tags-view)][Org Tags View]] - Display headlines with tags matching a condition (the user is prompted for the condition). ") (goto-char 0) (use-local-map rcd-org-agenda-mode-map))) > There hasn't been much discussion on the list about this, There was > brief discussion on the list about 'h' here: > https://orgmode.org/list/87v9b6qn23.fsf@gmail.com/. Maybe most > people don't really care about this. Do other people ever use '?' or > was that just me because i came from the vim world? It was something > that stood out to me when i first started using org-mode, so i > thought i would present it to the list as feedback data. I do use, that is not consistent with other Emacs key-style menus. The way to go is to adapt it for yourself. You need not use Org Agenda menu, it is anyway a menu that tries to do anything and everything. You may invoke specific function yourself or bind it to a key, such as `M-x org-agenda-list' > I didn't realize for a while that "C-h m" opens describe-mode by > default, and describe-mode is kinda what i wanted for my problems. I > had been opening the org info manual, taking a couple steps to > navigate to 'Agenda Commands', and referencing that. I then > bookmarked it because i was doing it so much. Maybe i was being > stupid but i was new to stuff and i think the '?' is intended for > people who are getting started and it would have helped me out > there. You are totally right, I find those design problems too including in the Org export mode. Each of the modes can be simply constructed as a non-blocking Org buffer that simply works both with keys and hyperlinks or mouse. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns Sign an open letter in support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/