From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id KGErBeQh2mO4fwAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 09:25:08 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id wF81BeQh2mO/RgEAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 09:25:08 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A68FA14AE8 for ; Wed, 1 Feb 2023 09:25:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pN8Pj-0001xz-VH; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 03:24:19 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pN8Pj-0001xi-0T for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 03:24:19 -0500 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pN8Ph-00076M-1c for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 03:24:18 -0500 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:102.85.240.173]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000055D5E.0000000063DA21B1.000029BE; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 01:24:17 -0700 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2023 10:41:51 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: "Thomas S. Dye" Cc: Ihor Radchenko , Greg Minshall , Sterling Hooten , Tim Cross , Daryl Manning , rjhorn@alum.mit.edu, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: "Thomas S. Dye" , Ihor Radchenko , Greg Minshall , Sterling Hooten , Tim Cross , Daryl Manning , rjhorn@alum.mit.edu, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org References: <63ca1283.170a0220.5bc81.0fdd@mx.google.com> <87pmb9k8oi.fsf@tsdye.online> <3035CDD5-41DD-4516-9E4E-9E0DF16BE2E0@gmail.com> <87lelo8c9r.fsf@localhost> <2150768.1675077958@archlinux> <87tu063ox2.fsf@localhost> <87h6w63jgg.fsf@localhost> <87v8klvpd3.fsf@tsdye.online> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87v8klvpd3.fsf@tsdye.online> User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.9+54 (af2080d) (2022-11-21) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1675239907; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=22i4W+Fl/W0dBTY9/CVLazpX9WqKLgBxQG/sTbDU+aA=; b=f+2lj7fyhxyhVUQGAyTGcBlVYXAtkf6qji69U5QJMmgvPCGVTe/rXt1maXpT8CMHpExVsY 1Ww23eYcR0bQDsmdUstPD8bmFmNRmyF30LI7zebO3doZLDbF2W+OLKi/pRlYQsNLfbILgB e16sHtSQiShkkkntrg1VhSLQa89SayJD6zH9uxKtvmvVOVvjFKesL8vctVhOkQl9yucs0/ TFRk9uR1LMQ96OYPbvKPCVV71jPff7d/lksqJzvoYs9tq7APi+esOu/un7coC+eruL7LhZ ZoA26IsNwIXoQmei+Zis4/0mqsch5p78ICWUV+BM2oUuy5Cylc/teK41/usDGg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1675239907; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=b3kaqH0gIH141XjmAtyWSi3tf12qTnhmydBBj69g5wisXOZ14EDQETAKsB80eE+zlnlQ52 KCZgk2ZibBmh3WfFgsBdT1R8g60l74fT8DgFvm1ZN7FmDhNMxeKRvUEbwyndd+yo93GO+e 8xO+GoYNylQdGv+uq6VTr33ka9MJhtvqK8sswjhlhRyT/CSK+5AFJczkw9DxsLkYvFLgro gNw7FH4AJxKhsBkZpu4jQe6OH/y63fgobyPNfy+aOuo4jc8CsqtEUB1HdNUyNI1FS9bllA KbXFTpMBs1o7HffNifXiVcqsrup9C9Lflff4PrKs3zV/DJ8zJefVgdiJDqIAKA== Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-Spam-Score: -1.68 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: A68FA14AE8 X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.68 X-TUID: BvJ69etZKNBz * Thomas S. Dye [2023-02-01 10:05]: > Aloha Jean Louis, > > Jean Louis writes: > > > * Ihor Radchenko [2023-01-31 16:46]: > > > Specifying just @Europe/Berlin is ambiguous around the daylight > > > savings > > > transition. > > > > Sorry, I cannot see practical example why is it ambiguous. Unless > > programmer does not take all information in account, it is not > > ambigous. People on this planet agree on time zones in advance, so > > there are few changes that people cannot plan in advance. > > Please see Russia's plan to put Eastern Ukraine on Moscow time, and then > come back and argue that people on this planet agree on time zones in > advance: > > https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/27/world/europe/russia-ukraine-time-zones.html?smid=url-share Then I have not expressed me enough specific. When I said "people", I definitely did not think "all people", as that is impossible. The agreement of "people" is summarized by standards of International Organization for Standardization (ISO) with ISO 8601 that includes specification and representation of time and time zones. There may be many disagreements on the world in relation to time zones, and if they do not align it for international standard, we do not need to consider it. While it may be specific disalignment problem in some country, their citizen must anyway resort to ISO again for calculations. We all rely on ISO standard. Not capricious decisions going behind that. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/