From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net>
Cc: Ypo <ypuntot@gmail.com>, Org-mode <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2023 15:12:00 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <Y9+dEGvIdSEFjdkg@protected.localdomain> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87lelce6iu.fsf@localhost>
* Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> [2023-02-05 13:45]:
> [2024-02-04 12:00 @-08,America/Vancouver] will use fixed -8 offset
What does that mean practically? Provide example for better
understanding.
- The UTC offset is not certain to remain fixed in the future.
- If you do not have the time of creation of the timestamp above, you
cannot know with certainty what was the offset in past, to calculate
new UTC offset in case it changed
- As not even time zone is certain to remain in existence in future,
you will need to use time zone, in order to derive that future UTC
offset correctly. As it could change in mean time.
What is meaning of "fixed -8 offset"?
> [2024-02-04 12:00 @-08] will also use fixed -8 offset
That type of timestamp does not clearly show the time zone, that one
may only be understood as timestamp with UTC offset. UTC time may be
derived from such timestamp. That offset should remain fixed, as there
is no time zone associated. It is UTC time represented with offset.
> [2024-02-04 12:00 @America/Vancouver] will use @America/Vancouver time
> zone, as it is be defined in you OS time zone database.
If you do not keep UTC offset, you will miss changes in future and
generate errors.
> [2024-02-04 12:00 @-08,!America/Vancouver] (note "!") will use fixed -8
> offset, but also calculate America/Vancouver time from TZ database,
> compare it with the time coming from -8 offset, and warn you if there is
> inconsistency.
The UTC offset is the log what was the UTC offset at the time point
when timestamp was created, as future UTC offset cannot be known.
Making it "fixed" does not fix it in real time, you are then
introducing something new than what other programs do with time.
I do not think that you need "!", you are creating work not necessary
for users.
If users wish to get some warnings, let them customize single option.
Not timestamp by timestamp.
--
Jean
Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns
In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-02-05 12:13 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 90+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-02-04 21:38 [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Ypo
2023-02-05 3:12 ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-05 9:31 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-05 10:44 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-05 12:12 ` Jean Louis [this message]
2023-02-05 13:01 ` ypuntot
2023-02-06 14:15 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-07 21:38 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-06 14:10 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-07 22:19 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-08 10:36 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-10 3:29 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-10 10:48 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-12 9:33 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-12 13:47 ` tomas
2023-02-14 6:00 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-14 9:41 ` Heinz Tuechler
2023-02-14 9:45 ` tomas
2023-02-14 11:42 ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-14 15:59 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-14 16:45 ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-02-16 14:21 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-14 16:57 ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-14 10:45 ` Jean Louis
2023-03-10 10:46 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-08 13:30 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-10 1:37 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-11 4:44 ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-12 10:32 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-15 15:17 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-16 15:06 ` Jean Louis
2023-03-10 10:51 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-15 14:42 ` Max Nikulin
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2023-02-12 13:27 Ypo
2023-02-04 18:59 ypuntot
2023-02-04 19:45 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-05 17:04 ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-07 21:46 ` Jean Louis
2023-01-17 3:55 [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Daryl Manning
2023-01-17 8:22 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-17 9:15 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-17 9:45 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-18 9:15 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-18 11:43 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-18 12:02 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-18 21:16 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-19 5:29 ` Jean Louis
2023-01-19 7:23 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-19 14:32 ` Jean Louis
2023-01-19 20:09 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-19 23:02 ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-19 23:51 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-20 0:24 ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-20 3:46 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-20 6:14 ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-27 6:06 ` Sterling Hooten
2023-01-27 11:09 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-30 11:25 ` Greg Minshall
2023-01-31 11:48 ` [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-31 12:19 ` Daryl Manning
2023-01-31 12:41 ` Ihor Radchenko
[not found] ` <CAL9aZksf8AGF=dXg0KAtLPyu1ATt1fLpvdsjN6GMCuK2KRQ56w@mail.gmail.com>
2023-01-31 13:33 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-31 13:22 ` Jean Louis
2023-01-31 13:46 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-31 19:59 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 12:42 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 15:28 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 16:30 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-31 20:12 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 5:46 ` tomas
2023-02-01 7:29 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 7:52 ` Tim Cross
2023-02-01 8:32 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 8:46 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 9:38 ` Tim Cross
2023-02-01 10:15 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 14:53 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 16:36 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 10:46 ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-01 14:43 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 16:45 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02 3:05 ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-02 8:59 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 14:38 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 16:50 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 7:00 ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-02-01 7:41 ` Jean Louis
2023-01-31 18:56 ` Greg Minshall
2023-02-01 12:48 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 12:52 ` tomas
2023-02-02 4:49 ` Greg Minshall
2023-01-31 20:41 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-31 23:50 ` Samuel Wales
2023-02-01 13:01 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-04 22:33 ` Samuel Wales
2023-02-04 22:49 ` Samuel Wales
2023-02-05 10:38 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 11:56 ` Christian Moe
2023-02-01 12:20 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 15:41 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-02 8:38 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-03 11:31 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-04 10:58 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-04 19:32 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-05 9:14 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02 3:46 ` Timothy
2023-02-02 9:12 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02 9:12 ` Timothy
2023-02-02 9:20 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02 9:27 ` Timothy
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