From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id UKttLei8xmP1YQAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2023 16:21:12 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id sMBSLei8xmM/GgEA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2023 16:21:12 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 645C5160ED for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2023 16:21:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pHnkv-0006Dy-MS; Tue, 17 Jan 2023 10:20:09 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pHnks-0006Db-2H for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2023 10:20:07 -0500 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pHnkp-00035z-MN for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2023 10:20:05 -0500 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:102.85.233.9]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000056164.0000000063C6BCA1.0000110D; Tue, 17 Jan 2023 08:20:01 -0700 Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2023 18:19:01 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Ihor Radchenko Cc: Tim Cross , Daryl Manning , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Ihor Radchenko , Tim Cross , Daryl Manning , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org References: <86zgamtv6o.fsf@gmail.com> <87tu0t1i0c.fsf@localhost> <63c2aa9e.170a0220.3bb49.9ef4@mx.google.com> <87pmbhz1x6.fsf@localhost> <87tu0qlo01.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87tu0qlo01.fsf@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.9+54 (af2080d) (2022-11-21) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1673968872; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=WgpdonbagabJ22+gpePHCoi667tbSN8HiHMMi8ZhlNdHsZFmhgmwjoY7sMQEjTGL7AhvwL CnHEJ3oa4Htah3Ap3RBR15t84cXhg3n7NciJNnk7OqJ7o9BBjzRMj2ykiwkrUeWbBkWdpF YKmAxELoFPmjKdO+5mpu9rSB+n449Q/SDBsQoVBVnFx4uKX8XtSRpr5N/Fz0zegFMwndIZ UcZgm0i6CXBYamZG4bz8iFfmak08FT3DJcb0+YpkpLqJrJiaWP+c6dxzE+1pW3DRjx5XqT jYe1BCKA0McBsrB/FfNF0Juqb1pCxsqp/GFA83Clq39Aim2dAtsJXyu6gL09VA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1673968872; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=MJPMQRajW3YZtQe/f3mHXSjY0zGvWrvEMI6Y+klv1L4=; b=Ca2hBGvWIkVCMWw5SFVGmlvxrHJvpZBcsH0oqTaZvihm7tIonLUbdiq4Vw+L9aWsgDotMP hcGkhj+K8jTw4MqENpJ00hAuWR+MoKe70fAikDcYgbiQgpuRBSJL2S+ZgMXwe9SLrEiJcH d6hJvdLE3/GzVWieXwDyGfUN6+tdqUDeviFXzn7VR59e25yq63n8LaLWxaZcf0gcZ9qLbR V1tRM0hcWarqOGjxssPmBK6fCyIgtTn1hstwfJvcysYGqiWZfzZaJJYQknQKYlOtpDYAva KdMG8eFcnTDIHM7kbZT1E3vNgOAXI5sg8qwpclYfHG/ZzcvzZFzmLApndfshyA== Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.43 X-Spam-Score: -2.43 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 645C5160ED X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: v1Wd0bsMMnpy * Ihor Radchenko [2023-01-16 14:25]: > Jean Louis writes: > > >> I am not sure what is the problem. > >> The timestamps that should stay in local time will be automatically > >> updated as your system TZ is updated. > > > > Then Org shall know what was local time! Without being specified in > > the time stamp, it has to be specified somewhere, as computer can't > > know at which time zone was it specified. > > We need nothing to use current time zone. And we already do it. > > System clock knows the current time zone. Emacs has an ability to > determine current time zone. See `current-time-zone'. This works > automatically (and already) because we use `encode-time'. Then you did not understand the point. For users who use Org personally, in single place, single time zone, who do no travel, who do not share headings, tasks, and files internationally, they really do not need hussle with time zones! However, when nice strong guy makes an Org file with list of tasks in Ukraine and send it to nice girl Florida, she will simply think that at 9 o'clock she has to discuss making visa with her fiance, but fiance is already pissed off because she did not appear at online meeting. Time zones are useful for: - people who travel from one time zone to other; - people who share Org files, headings, tasks; Of course I was doing it since 2016 until some year when I realized that there are serious human usability related limits. But let's review, what would it be, when it would be that Jean works in Org: I have switched from Org to Hyperscope in June 2021: # SELECT hypeoplerelations_datecreated FROM hypeoplerelations WHERE hypeoplerelations_hypeoplereltypes = 2 LIMIT 1; hypeoplerelations_datecreated ------------------------------- 2021-06-09 10:19:06.19327+03 That was the date when I slowly transitioned from sharing Org tasks to people, in fact those were Org headings. Since June 2021, I have shared 6176 time heading, without using Org, to people all in various countries. # SELECT count(1) FROM hypeoplerelations WHERE hypeoplerelations_hypeoplereltypes = 2; count ------- 6176 (1 row) Time zones are small detail that does matter. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/