From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id uOSEH29cxGOowgAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 15 Jan 2023 21:05:03 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id oDB5H29cxGOb/wAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 15 Jan 2023 21:05:03 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59E9B31227 for ; Sun, 15 Jan 2023 21:05:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pH9EQ-0000rL-3s; Sun, 15 Jan 2023 15:03:54 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pH9EO-0000qq-D0 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Jan 2023 15:03:52 -0500 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pH9EM-0002rx-4i for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Jan 2023 15:03:51 -0500 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.239.8.177]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000055D73.0000000063C45C22.00002820; Sun, 15 Jan 2023 13:03:45 -0700 Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2023 22:52:21 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Ihor Radchenko Cc: tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Ihor Radchenko , tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org References: <63c287ca.a70a0220.4bd14.873b@mx.google.com> <87pmbh1hgx.fsf@localhost> <63c2b8e4.a70a0220.e3b6d.0051@mx.google.com> <87edrxyyeq.fsf@localhost> <87bkn1yx59.fsf@localhost> <87lem582qw.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87lem582qw.fsf@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.9+54 (af2080d) (2022-11-21) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1673813103; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=YQHlpvvyk4dNjUoet01Vfk7qKDnPSPM7/5rPTIhA0CLnM1orXNtBRpmpvADRZxV7bVdxyn IWuO47siwwaLuHAdnKWkKgf+Bqa+o+Bj2n/9bCoWT1bGibjj59ydHUtQ3HcnRmitK2xolx fFYn+4h2V1PFeZ3l8/oxexau6AjsquzVPHfbDyyMomi48RXpUHTtdapdKx4kIDxMQouGZk ARhFcnm65A26QqSCbmOexsSsAbAj6t0eFRmqyRt2hR+DGnuTyQEQFdYmpqfKjindNVDkfe vdQV4CgG+38uVCJD5eLFFnibo6wCfYihyVrJUwyVQeCAXVhk31twUS+GBnZ6Mw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1673813103; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=Gs2AFTVNnxN5yC+cA1tWUCMAsvpg9Akjp+DO8+LEslA=; b=ZWbLKxTAsEH6oxtujwmfQNCjyKLgQBrxzrq7X7+mjnJwNXZNcv9nztEXynaUCvFYV638eu +j41XWoNMbjTGfMLl9X7nohKmjZbiIW6jU23Up+thYPuDacbKLAu2762ICBq/SfxwqR+yC rt4tTHUUG6NP3QSq8hikZnf0i2RAB08kBWa6ZUcOXi0daWpaaJ3oxJ491Fc2X9MSYO9KFN u2miPZkzmxBaOiK2fwJxU4kKlat16mIswmfFZb77X8FlelVNRxhiyM82SILEw+ufZ0rW76 003PjfHYVwL2H8aApmG8WRfg2QlcDPbNHO+jYYo1ghiknY0SbtTpYOwkPMlwHQ== X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 59E9B31227 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.22 X-Spam-Score: -3.22 X-TUID: LhT45g8/ODi7 * Ihor Radchenko [2023-01-14 20:08]: > > When you have appointments with people in totally diverse time zones, > > perhaps dates tend to be more fixed wrt UTC. > > AFAIK, people don't usually bother. Can't agree to that, we who do bother will simply find different solutions but Org, like I have developed it for myself or other CRM systems where all time issues are solved fundamentally on the database level. Haven thanks, it is very easy within seconds to find how many people are affected by time zones, so I have run "SELECT DISTINCT get_contacts_name(hyobjects_assignedperson) FROM hyobjects WHERE hyobjects_assignedperson IS NOT NULL;" And I got round number of 50 people! All our staff members used Org mode before, now not, there is no need for it, apart from few lines, or generated Org buffers for usage similar like browsing. And this is only for reasons of having fancier themes. You can't know if people bother if you do not ask. Yes, I feel that it is not considerate enough when you say that people don't usually bother. When I expressed my on this mailing list that there are issues, that was back in time, and I would consider any issue here mentioned ever once, that "people do bother". In media and newspaper business, we know that when there is one reader's letter, that there are 1000 other people who have the same opinion. Maybe statistics changed, but you should use that principle on mailing list and in any community software development. One person writing on mailing list may mean hundreds affected in background. I can observe on other development places that people raise issue before 10 years, before 8 years, until it finally gets solved, and the package get its boost because it became really useful. All the people who were direct and indirect users of Org mode since 2016, switched to different system. They are not bothered to learn about Org, which is useful as it minimizes distraction. Though Org mode remains useful in work of managers. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/