From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id gFQ7O9F4wl+dEQAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 28 Nov 2020 16:20:33 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id 0P7vNtF4wl/vPgAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 28 Nov 2020 16:20:33 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3EC109403D3 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 2020 16:20:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:40768 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kj2xb-0002dg-FS for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2020 11:20:31 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58828) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kj2wn-0002cL-95 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2020 11:19:42 -0500 Received: from static.rcdrun.com ([95.85.24.50]:40451) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kj2wi-0000ES-Eq for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2020 11:19:38 -0500 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.157.0.29]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by static.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000002C000B.000000005FC27895.00005EC5; Sat, 28 Nov 2020 16:19:33 +0000 Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2020 19:16:23 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Ihor Radchenko Subject: Re: One vs many directories Message-ID: References: <878sauhhv1.fsf@web.de> <875z5ygwwr.fsf@web.de> <87r1olfvh4.fsf@web.de> <87wnybb340.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87wnybb340.fsf@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/2.0 (3d08634) (2020-11-07) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=95.85.24.50; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=static.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: 16 X-Spam_score: 1.6 X-Spam_bar: + X-Spam_report: (1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, PDS_OTHER_BAD_TLD=1.999, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" , Texas Cyberthal , "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.27 X-Scanner: ns3122888.ip-94-23-21.eu Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-TUID: qbgGpJJ+bJ33 * Ihor Radchenko [2020-11-24 10:57]: > > I find it entertaining for now. Now, what is exomind? > > Unless I misunderstood, Jean referred to "external brain" concept: > - https://beepb00p.xyz/exobrain/ The more you send me reference more I discover other set of people doing same what I am doing. Since I have implemented central meta level organization it is moving rapidly, everthing gets sorted. It develops by itself and is rapidly accessible. That website I have to mirror locally to pick ideas and learn from others. Mirroring I do with: $ wget -Emk http://example.com As that command replaces all hyperlinks to local hyperlinks. That person advanced in organization of things. I stick to few principles and just design it by principles. Design works rapidly. Few Emacs Lisp functions and access to reports listed in Emacs Buffers and integration with other tools. With one function and one PostgreSQL table defined in 3 minutes I get rudimentary backup and version system for any column values that I am editing in the database. If I edit note, the note is versioned (previous version stored) before I start editing it. Principles I am following are basics what programmers like, to minimize or eliminate repetitions and efforts to achieve the goal. Person above have extracted or exported its own database of hyperlinks to hyperdocuments. My side I have made for now Org export of any subtree or the whole dynamic knowledge repository. There are many things to go. In Emacs development version all kinds of hyperlinks can get their handlers like gopher:// gemini:// message: tel: sms: and htat will be very helpful. No, I do not use "exobrain" as a term. I rather lean on Engelbart's terminology and follow his principles as we are very late to implement what was envisioned back in 1968 and before. It is 52 years already. And many more years since Memex has been invented: Memex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memex As author said: "The memex device as described by Bush "would use microfilm storage, dry photography, and analog computing to give postwar scholars access to a huge, indexed repository of knowledge any section of which could be called up with a few keystrokes." And that is exactly what I am creating here to have anything called up with few keystrokes and to be able to share files with individuals or groups of people without more thinking but just designated what to be done. Have group of 5 people to share notes with? Just find the designated group and click share. Computer would handle the rest, maybe send files by emails individually, maybe inform people by SMS, maybe upload files and share password protected hyperlinks with those people. Integration is another keyword I like to follow. Android principle of sharing is pretty much based on integration. We have all the small functions around us only not well integrated with their relations that concern human problems. We have files on file system which we cannot easily share with groups or people we want. Address books are all sparse, one is in this email client, one is separate, one is on the mobile device, another email client does not synchronize, and so on. I have forgotten this long ago and use central address book from where everything derive: - no Google, clouds, etc. that is very insecure. Do not give contacts to Google, there are hundreds of thousands of staff members there and no guarantee whatsoever that they will not read it. - keeping contacts on my computers. I have already spent money for hard disk, there is enough space - exporting contacts from central database and importing to email clients, mobile devices, this way everything is synchronized. How quickly can GNU/Linux user share a file with somebody? - locate the file by using hierarchical browsing. If file system is a mess, this alone may take some time - open up email reader - find that email address. If it is in the email reader already it is good. But it could be in the phone. It could be on paper, or on business card. Where is it? Maybe calling person? But where is the phone number? On first phone, second phone... if all is synchronized maybe is easier to find. - attach the file - send the file. But then sending SMS or calling in the same time does not work. The above process is not well integrated. It could work like this: - user just thinks of what has to be shared with other person, types the terms related to the thought - locates the file and press share - locates the user and press enter. FINISHED That would be better integration. Even better it would be if user can choose the automated workflow option: 1. send the file, automatically record that file has been sent to specific user. Tell user automatically how many files are attached and attach annotation belonging to the file as body of the email or any instructions. 2. in the same time inform the user by SMS that file has been sent and record that SMS have been sent. Software like kdeconnect, gnokii can be used for it. 3. within 1 hour, or other period of time, computer asks to initiate the call to the user to follow up about the file sent and maybe nudges few times and records the action. Software like termux tools can be used for it. My first big surprise with Org was that there was no possibility to assign the task to other person and send that task! I actually could not believe that it was meant for single person or personal tasks and notes. Then I made the function to share the task quickly to any person assigned to the task. If person is assigned, task is sent to the person. If no person is assigned then I choose to which person to send it. This includes also groups of people. > - https://zettelkasten.de/posts/extend-your-mind-and-memory-with-a-zettelkasten/ That is similar idea of organizing. There is claim that one shall forget about categories and rather use tags. I think that using any types of attributes is better and using more attributes helps in quicker location. > - https://github.com/novoid/Memacs I have installed it and not yet used it. I would not like having too many tools on file system to manage information. There are too many memacs tools made for console. In general I am tracking all SMS sent from phones to other people, they are automatically inserted into corresponding people's objects. Then I know which people received what. Phone calls can be tracked too. Phone calls can be recorded. Sales and marketing departments need that. I am using now only principles from Memacs and implement some of them in Emacs Lisp. As I like integration I do not like external tools, but the dynanic knowledge repository must be usable externally without Emacs. That becomes very easy by expanding the whole tree of notes into the file system from time to time and generating meanings for symlinks that point to fixed locations on file system. The centralized subtrees or nodes of my dynamic knowledge repository can be moved easily from one parent node to other parent node. This is because human must sort things properly. But if such are pointing to files on file system those files never change. Meaning and relations can change but file location should not change. Directories are more static then files. They would never change. Files if not indexed but located in the archive could maybe change or get updated. Git repository could get updated but its directory need never change in the future. Let us say there are many PDFs to be indexed and accessed through semantics. The PDF file name could change but access to PDF file need never change. Renaming PDF file need not change access to PDF file in other word there is no need to rename it twice, it can remain in the database and get accessed automatically. But that requires directory to be static, or it requires md5sum of the file to be static. Something must be static that file can be found by the system. Best is when file is under specific unique ID that never changes. Then everything becomes unique and clear. And symlink can be automatically generated: ~/hyperscope/1/2/3/432.pdf would be file ~/hyperscope/1/2/3/Knowledge.pdf would be symlink to 432.pdf automatically generated and from time to time updated if there were many changes in the database. The Org hyperlink to the file could point to: ~/hyperscope/1/2/3/432.pdf because file location is this way static and will never change. But the Org hyperlink could as well point to meta level hyperlink (hyperscope 432) as that would open the file no matter where is the location. And if file is on remote server, something like [[PDF File][(hyperscope 432 2)]] would then work quite well. As this type of dynamic knowledge repository is multi user automatically as database is multi user. It means files can be accessed from all over the world and groupware collaboration becomes trivial as PostgreSQL is networked database. Now for the user accessing the specific database then the hyperlink can be just (hyperscope 432) and user who is remote could say by activating the hyperlink that remote user likes to have the file. Program must know if user is local or remote. If user is remote the file can be sent by email, it could be automatically encrypted and sent, encrypted and uploaded to web server, or uploaded to web server with password encrypted access or without. Any information can be protected and not all information need to be shown on public webservers. Maybe it becomes better to use the URI like: hyperscope://user@example.com:432 whereby 432 would not indicate the database port but rather the ID of the hyperdocument to be activated or accessed. user@example.com would have relation to the actual username, password, hostname, database name and port on the user's own system and program installed as such without local database. Maybe port could be optional as multiple ports could be on the same hostname. That would create unique access to specific domain and specific user on remote hyperscope server. It becomes possible to securely share and access files or do any action on such files by using the groupware features. The big difference with the WWW is that system is structured and offers liberty on how to access files and what to do with the system. User may remotely invoke emails to be sent to groups of people. This is not what WWW offers by default. User could remotely edit Org file only by using the database. Org file need not be located on the file system. And yet such Org file can be automatically saved on the file system or sent to other people. Locating 4-5 or more people becomes possible, marking of them and quick export to Org file becomes possible. Then user may invoke further actions such as visiting people, negotiating, calling people, sending them information by post, sending SMS to people. When backed up by well networked database it becomes multi user collaborative meta level Org system. > - https://blog.jethro.dev/posts/org_mode_workflow_preview/ I have captured that one for later research. Small details and notes do matter when creating some new useful features. Jean