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From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
To: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@gmx.com>
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Daniele Nicolodi <daniele@grinta.net>
Subject: Re: Ignored bugs
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 00:36:45 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <X7RCbYcBvoNNY/PG@protected.rcdrun.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20201117205419.l2mzatdu3fkiwgwt@E15-2016.optimum.net>

* Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@gmx.com> [2020-11-17 23:57]:
> On 2020-11-17 21:27, Daniele Nicolodi wrote:
> > The page that introduces the Emacs bug tracker already reports that this
> > ...
> 
> The way emacs users behave isn't to go search and find and read that web
> page. It's to perform M-x report-emacs-bug. For people using a command
> completion program, while they type they see similar alternatives but
> org-mode has gone its own way also in its naming convention for
> report-*-bug so its 'submit' function would not appear (nor c nor ffap).
> 
> > mailing list is the right place where to report Org bugs (or feature
> > request, as is the case for at least one of the bug you reported), and
> > not the Emacs bug tracker.
> 
> That cuts off anyone not wanting to be a subscriber to your mailing list
> / not wanting all the clutter of all the other conversations and threads
> of your mailing list (I certainly don't). That imposes upon them the
> burden of taking the steps to apply to join the list, confirm, post, and
> then unsubscribe any time they want to make a contribution or submit a
> report.

As Org is part of Emacs one has to understand Boruch's point as
valid. This means it is part of Emacs and M-x report-emacs-bug should
not be ignored. Managers of the mailing list or Org developers could
make sure to read those bug reports as well. A cron job to grep report
for Org bugs can help there.

It is quite clear when user finds out about M-x org-submit-bug-report
that such will rather use that. But there is plethora of users who may
not find that option and they will simply reach to Help menu to submit
the bug.

There is menu item Org and Submit bug report. But user may not find
that menu item as first thing to reach could be simply "Help" and
submit bug report.

> But, let's try out your suggested method of reporting. Here I am on your
> mailing list, reporting that function org-submit-bug-report should
> either be renamed or aliased to something more consistent with function
> report-emacs-bug, possibly report-emacs-org-bug.

I may join and say I support that alignment with the other function.

Personally as Org is part of Emacs, I think it should not have special
bug reporting, but it should rather be in M-x report-emacs-bug
together. I say this as I see that bugs sent to mailing list may not
have its proper action cycles, or proper tracking. But I am unsure of
it. You could develop the function report-emacs-bug to have users say
clearly it is Org bug.

One could detect if user is invoking report-emacs-bug from Org mode
and only then ask user "Is this Org mode bug?" and provide that little
different instructions for Org mode.

As if that it not acceptable I would then propose these functions:

M-x report-org-bug

and

M-x report-emacs-bug

As those are more aligned to each other or just as Boruch said.

> > You are deliberately ignoring these instructions. What do you expect?
> 
> For one, I expect you to not unjustly impute to me motive, and not to
> take that 'what do you expect' attitude with me (or with anyone else).

It is good to be considerate for reason that we should be, and to
consider good faith especially by those reporting bugs.

GNU Kind Communications Guidelines
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/kind-communication.html



  reply	other threads:[~2020-11-17 21:38 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 17+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-11-17 18:41 Boruch Baum
2020-11-17 19:51 ` Daniele Nicolodi
2020-11-17 20:15   ` Boruch Baum
2020-11-17 20:27     ` Daniele Nicolodi
2020-11-17 20:54       ` Boruch Baum
2020-11-17 21:36         ` Jean Louis [this message]
2020-11-17 23:42           ` Tim Cross
2020-11-18  4:04           ` Ihor Radchenko
2020-12-14  6:55         ` Bastien
2020-11-18  2:50   ` Pankaj Jangid
2020-11-18  3:59     ` Tim Cross
2020-11-18  6:44       ` Pankaj Jangid
2020-11-18  6:50         ` Jean Louis
2020-11-18  7:32         ` Tim Cross
2020-11-18  6:03     ` Jean Louis
2020-11-18  6:50       ` Pankaj Jangid
2020-12-14  7:14 ` Bastien

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