From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id INg1Hcu3sV+UeQAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 23:20:43 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id SJ0zGcu3sV/xEgAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 23:20:43 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 121679405D0 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 23:20:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:54270 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1keRK6-0000yh-1Q for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 18:20:42 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60426) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1keRIt-0000yD-QR for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 18:19:27 -0500 Received: from static.rcdrun.com ([95.85.24.50]:53819) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1keRIs-00079T-5j for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 18:19:27 -0500 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.202.241.56]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by static.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000002C1AE3.000000005FB1B77C.00000DBE; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 23:19:24 +0000 Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 01:15:36 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: =?utf-8?B?S8Opdmlu?= Le Gouguec Subject: Re: Changed list indentation behavior: how to revert? Message-ID: References: <2020-11-13T18-23-43@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> <871rgxotcv.fsf@gmail.com> <87zh3koqgk.fsf@gmail.com> <871rgu7pt9.fsf@gmail.com> <87k0umjn74.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <87k0umjn74.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/2.0 (3d08634) (2020-11-07) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=95.85.24.50; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=static.rcdrun.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/11/15 18:19:19 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: ns3122888.ip-94-23-21.eu Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.01 X-TUID: DDKORKwDsL3K * Kévin Le Gouguec [2020-11-16 01:00]: :PROPERTIES: :CREATED: [2020-11-16 Mon 01:15] :ID: bd11f325-c034-4f9b-baa6-b7d606af3cbb :END: > - Plenty of Org users do not expect it to behave like programming modes > wrt indentation (they might not even use programming modes). > > - These users were using RET as a "dumb newline" command, unaware > that by default, Org considers that text should be indented. You have all nice good points, thank you. My confusion comes from the below advertised liberties: - Org Mode - Your life in plain text - A GNU Emacs major mode for convenient plain text markup — and much more. And so all the time I have expected Org to be very liberal. I could write it in any mode, any editor, and I could still use it back in Emacs. Special stuff as I understood it since beginning is just header, properties or tags and tables and special blocks. Everything else should be liberal. Using RET as newline, yes. This is only how I was hooked onto Org. Side notes: Personally I would like Org to be either rigid or not rigid and liberal. It is either one of those. Indentation by default is nowhere. Neither rigid or not rigid as it is not mature feature. It is hard to express me. I have given examples when indentation is not following with itself. But if all other functions are following nicely with indentation AND bunch of users seek that, why not. When copying subtrees into different headings, identation is not always following nicely. When demoting upmoting headings, is not following nicely.