From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id r3XsHzr/rl+GGgAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2020 21:48:42 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id sLlXGzr/rl/dXQAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2020 21:48:42 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2374094050F for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2020 21:48:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:34876 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kdgvw-0001cV-ER for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 13 Nov 2020 16:48:40 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35740) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kdgvX-0001cI-Ua for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Nov 2020 16:48:16 -0500 Received: from static.rcdrun.com ([95.85.24.50]:58037) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kdgvV-0000sv-Ne for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Nov 2020 16:48:15 -0500 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.202.241.56]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by static.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000002C0005.000000005FAEFF1A.00003F9D; Fri, 13 Nov 2020 21:48:10 +0000 Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 00:47:59 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Gustavo Barros Subject: Re: Changed list indentation behavior: how to revert? Message-ID: References: <2020-11-13T18-23-43@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> <871rgxotcv.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <871rgxotcv.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/2.0 (3d08634) (2020-11-07) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=95.85.24.50; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=static.rcdrun.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/11/13 16:09:19 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Karl Voit , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Karl Voit Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: ns3122888.ip-94-23-21.eu Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 1.99 X-TUID: 2KmJtolUKlvm * Gustavo Barros [2020-11-14 00:12]: > I'll answer, because I feel somewhat responsible for your upgrade. ;-) > > Since recently Org is set to respect Emacs' `eletric-indent-mode'. If > I'm not mistaken, it made to the 9.4 release, I presume that's what you > are getting. > > You can find the Org News entry, and how to get the previous behavior > back in: > https://code.orgmode.org/bzg/org-mode/src/master/etc/ORG-NEWS#L323 > > A couple of threads that might help understand the change and the > reasoning behind it: > https://orgmode.org/list/877dxpazbo.fsf_-_@gmail.com/ > https://orgmode.org/list/878sfbycip.fsf@iki.fi/ I have seen discussion with very little reasoning. You are changing default for many users and large subset of those users will not read the NEWS. And now you are discovering that there are people who get messed up with it. Is it really useful? So far I remember the electric-indent-mode did work in Org mode without this anti-enhancement. If user starts typing line like: Right here Then user has decided that line begins at the letter R(ight). And you are deciding for users that their line begin at letter (h)ere. I did not see any reasoning why should programmer change the default behavior of electric-indent into something untested by more than just few people. If such function is wanted by subset of users then make it optional for those. Introducing default that changes habits and gives more work to present users is not useful. Did you consider number of users who would now maybe need to introduce local variable just to turn that off? Sorry that I do not find this case reasonable.