From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Carsten Dominik Subject: Re: Re: Feature idea: Automatic clocking Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 11:38:09 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87k50xm0hu.fsf@gollum.intra.norang.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MfASv-0001hL-B9 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Aug 2009 06:38:25 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MfASo-0001h1-Tr for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Aug 2009 06:38:24 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=46898 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MfASo-0001gy-OM for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Aug 2009 06:38:18 -0400 Received: from mail-ew0-f211.google.com ([209.85.219.211]:56435) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MfASo-0002k2-5x for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Aug 2009 06:38:18 -0400 Received: by ewy7 with SMTP id 7so1693961ewy.31 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 2009 03:38:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87k50xm0hu.fsf@gollum.intra.norang.ca> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Bernt Hansen Cc: PT , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Hi I am also very skeptical to automate something like this. This is a typical are where it is all about the discipline to establish a habit. May experience is that if you cannot find the discipline to do it, an automatic process might does *something* for you, but you are not going to make any use of the collected data. :-( - Carsten On Aug 21, 2009, at 8:26 PM, Bernt Hansen wrote: > PT writes: > >> I just started using clocking and it seems really useful. It >> occured me it could also be done automatically for certain tasks >> which are performed in the org buffer. >> >> For example, I work on some text which I keep in an org subtree, >> the branches of the subtree hold the chapters, etc. >> >> If the main subtree which is the root of the document has a CLOCK >> property (put there by a previous manual clocking) and also an >> AUTOCLOCK or similar property then it could monitor if I modify >> the text within the subtree and start the clock automatically. If >> I stop modifying the subtree then after a while (say, 30 seconds, >> configurable) it would stop the clock automatically. >> >> So for subtrees explicitly marked for automatic clocking the user >> wouldn't have to start/stop the clock manually at all, org could >> do it itself. >> >> What do you think? > > Hi PT, > > I've been using org-mode clocking since 2006-08-29 Tue 11:44 and I am > skeptical about how useful this would really be in the general case. > > Most of my tasks involve *thinking* not just typing so stopping the > clock when I'm working on solving a problem would be bad. I also > clock > tasks while working on another machine which org-mode knows nothing > about so stopping the clock due to inactivity isn't appropriate. > > I don't like the idea of automatic clocking for a number of reasons: > > - It lets you be sloppy about starting and stopping the clock -- > which > means the clock won't be running for some task you are working on > (say one that is not marked for automatic clocking). This means > you're going to work on stuff and not have it clocked when you need > it to be at some point. I bill based on clock time and it needs to > be correct. > > - Clocking stuff in and out rigorously is a good habit to learn if > clock data is really important to you. Automatic clocking defeats > this goal. > > - If you're clocking some important project task and you happen to > touch the task marked for automatic clocking you'll clock out the > project task and clock in the new task... and a short time later > the > clock stops when you move back to the project task but you're still > really working on that original project task. > > Clocking the right task usually takes more intelligence than just what > part of an org-file changes. > > I have org-clock-out-when-done set to nil so that org-mode does not > stop > the clock when a task is marked DONE. This makes me responsible for > when the clock starts and stops for all tasks - I clock in and out for > everything that matters. I change the clock when I switch tasks and I > think it's really hard to get that right automatically. > > So there's my two cents :) > > Regards, > Bernt > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode