From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id yMEHKMPWsl8LCgAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 19:45:07 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id OHjHI8PWsl95UgAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 19:45:07 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 255FF94011C for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 19:45:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:55288 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kekQy-0003Ed-4j for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 14:45:04 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55294) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kekNt-0001G3-5N for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 14:41:54 -0500 Received: from mail-lf1-x134.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::134]:40968) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kekNo-0004Xn-FW for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 14:41:52 -0500 Received: by mail-lf1-x134.google.com with SMTP id w142so26759815lff.8 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 11:41:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=dW2cL54WvznOlCBQAYNYoHjbm7SO8NsimxRtRQPU01Q=; b=eGDqDWTyRBxQxSmvG3WvEZNLqN71b7cWSnqNMs+USs9XTHGpYwS8NEgsoJFXsXIUvW 1Zs9KsO9gbUTV3CjSoT2IJ7n+ze5dHnGj/1o2cFBmayfyZftRDBfnYVgvT2bG0dlvOkC LnW6oR7z4IAVjyW4C2c3g6kAgMp7vhV5NVt+RHvzRNAyOTjWiEs929uoCuU3IIjdwjke IrqfFzsw1egfI1oVHPUXqPZtJsLSkCueOF1Z4VhXws7AeVmXgAMDUQ27lOM1VeM/uT0U MicYreQkNb9CtBMAt7utOZ2kah/fK+w2Nqk/nR+IFnoD1j6nFTIsOylvrdOqYcXAlgv6 AAVA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dW2cL54WvznOlCBQAYNYoHjbm7SO8NsimxRtRQPU01Q=; b=oz3hzS0nizBh183+L1v6pZIIAnL/MsnhPfgV/UT78SGZtf39LX9bFyBo3Ipac1BgaT wX8scTlU+vcdfBQTlzl6ZLVCMUu4shFROZGPTugcKZIoZ+uL1dpXdZ7ovMcQpeaV7E+k aGp2GET0YYKw6FPMY7dlfkonGFAGIf77RYz35V2P+BTAwjXJiCpOrNBwpRwUTH2Rjdjz /2tTlkf65Z5QyPc/6/VEE1mDV/3c05qHH1XW71iMONPrc4jH/rG9HTUQHVlATr2achex R0A4OKMTPCCuqcGWoV+ZldiiSiQY3zVzhGklBLwJcwmF4RDgkHEjnr6baSTrtWDAUQ8K +sKw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531fkipGg8qSoZ29q4r97thURxYACW3WnSFvVYDp8MFePkXIThXt Pifv0WbmNKBYuu5L2FoAnmPSkHob9JOEghhiSp4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzCiHwCnTBIqibf15HYCPWAQOVQAZASkHThzsSKxGkh8zghlzyRGEPoZHBpuNUXQazCUKwnG3ain3TxEA27lRs= X-Received: by 2002:a19:c18e:: with SMTP id r136mr325114lff.423.1605555706524; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 11:41:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2020-11-13T18-23-43@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> <874klqew77.fsf@web.de> <20201115122154.50ad1503@linux-h0yu.fritz.box> <87tutq67ka.fsf@gmail.com> <87tutpvppm.fsf@kyleam.com> <871rgtwzrs.fsf@web.de> <87y2j1ahqf.fsf@gmail.com> <87v9e5uw2u.fsf@web.de> <01c3b019-2703-6c0c-988a-7bdbbd7b8a96@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Bill Burdick Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 21:41:35 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Changed list indentation behavior: how to revert? To: Tom Gillespie Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008dfa1e05b43e9165" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::134; envelope-from=bill.burdick@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x134.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: gyro funch , emacs-orgmode Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: ns3122888.ip-94-23-21.eu Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=eGDqDWTy; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.71 X-TUID: /vh7M9r2YG5/ --0000000000008dfa1e05b43e9165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Ugh, I update my emacs package pretty infrequently and I usually have 30 or more packages updating at a time -- I can't see wading through 30 NEWS files searching for landmines... -- Bill On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 9:10 PM Tom Gillespie wrote: > Semver is unlikely to help because the question is what is "broken" by > a change in version. Semver would likely be about breaking changes to > internal org apis, not changes to default behavior that affect users, > so you have two different "semantics" which put us right back where we > are now -- to know what really changed you have to read the NEWS. > Bastien has also talked about hear-ye versioning, which says when a > version changes users need to read the news. Best, > Tom > > > On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 1:15 PM gyro funch wrote: > > > > On 11/16/2020 9:26 AM, Tom Gillespie wrote: > > > Would it help if major releases maintained a mini-config that if added > > > to init.el would allow users to retain old behavior? That way they > > > wouldn't have to read the NEWS but could just add the relevant lines, > > > or maybe even just call the org-old-default-behavior-9.1 or > > > org-old-default-behavior-9.4. The workflow during development would be > > > to account for any change to defaults in those functions. Thoughts? > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > I hate to open a new can of worms, but could semantic versioning be used > > such that it is obvious when there are changes that are not backwards > > compatible? > > > > -gyro > > > > > > --0000000000008dfa1e05b43e9165 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ugh, I update my emacs package pretty infrequently and I u= sually have 30 or more packages updating at a time -- I can't see wadin= g through 30 NEWS files searching for landmines...


-- Bill


On= Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 9:10 PM Tom Gillespie <tgbugs@gmail.com> wrote:
Semver is unlikely to help because the question is= what is "broken" by
a change in version. Semver would likely be about breaking changes to
internal org apis, not changes to default behavior that affect users,
so you have two different "semantics" which put us right back whe= re we
are now -- to know what really changed you have to read the NEWS.
Bastien has also talked about hear-ye versioning, which says when a
version changes users need to read the news. Best,
Tom


On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 1:15 PM gyro funch <gyromagnetic@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/16/2020 9:26 AM, Tom Gillespie wrote:
> > Would it help if major releases maintained a mini-config that if = added
> > to init.el would allow users to retain old behavior? That way the= y
> > wouldn't have to read the NEWS but could just add the relevan= t lines,
> > or maybe even just call the org-old-default-behavior-9.1 or
> > org-old-default-behavior-9.4. The workflow during development wou= ld be
> > to account for any change to defaults in those functions. Thought= s?
> > Tom
> >
> >
>
> I hate to open a new can of worms, but could semantic versioning be us= ed
> such that it is obvious when there are changes that are not backwards<= br> > compatible?
>
> -gyro
>
>

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