From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id AAsjJwFxxWP4JgEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 16:45:05 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id SP8iJwFxxWNOgQAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 16:45:05 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3977115AD7 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 16:45:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pHReZ-0004Mn-9v; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 10:44:07 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pHReW-0004Ma-DL for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 10:44:04 -0500 Received: from mail-wr1-x42d.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42d]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pHReT-0002HA-Cv for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 10:44:04 -0500 Received: by mail-wr1-x42d.google.com with SMTP id h16so27860501wrz.12 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 07:44:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=wakatara.com; s=google; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Kf9k4vllX6ptPywrMlIoozmzr2qgyylHWhXjQ6oSl0U=; b=Ko/qJtrHib4qJ00ClTc8AYPi1Qo2b3+zKOTOdANDecGZCEUepYISIDd2WOqh2eOulC GJy08Cn1y4wk+rMwXyvOyHRu8iLol+ozfctbDIy2fC0sBDdEHWfISzyXyK8+HZrgE+od 9N5yyTWQd+R5b9G0XGHeZwPsV5F6lFvoFWoOfWuM2Uo+Y5vnH+ZDa1y5TLxf1BxGbT9Z O7T850+SaJuimbgKYefxuGUa1w7kjIC1h+mSYZ/p0kpFgcGER0ZOwCWoK3Y6xJFH3v/f f0o/yK7dWORBI0h8xXl73RaCW1LVGreZ9o44UCt+7HUiLC0o64FMrFUfFeu7oELjzvlI fmHA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=Kf9k4vllX6ptPywrMlIoozmzr2qgyylHWhXjQ6oSl0U=; b=6MufzLIuufOuVOrrEwArSFF1W3G3KJbweYMCxcxnJGfj2fpLHKwSqYVhjqh9G26ZpC PGYLrH26Kw8BQXjY6SW6H2rx9KkNgUHVAV3Zxz3qXdudy15ns0UGDD4LxwGnYKbnN6U1 cKH2VtbYECU7dOTb+jgHnRKgVMNZ3KX4xwnhun2NlQtzZKR3q+iGdtA64BKwnHACUkBd A6zsMhugF1AMHwJUGsFLqTw/5ffE2svs3lJier8xj9qfxgJqUhglehIzcexewDJTUZ4Q K8z3iLQAarM/eagFtN2FjD32bkYnKBwBjgjPxCFxEySHpSxXk2USCXX1HiSqtHXUaamt nxIA== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kozLVKCEr36FWoaoz5RQwp84L5hv5fHWq5CGkH3cDRrf+vVTpfz 3dKcX8rbm72vrNwNkIC5VCV3A/KTa5nKe4VIuICxyw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXunT+DT9QrNjo9g2ka7U90FiaHWyERkIzjBCsH8rZ7RhzpUUyRqfyJSytnkjAvvyj2v9tsfP1mDIbyuZzPaL70= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:1001:b0:2bb:3290:2540 with SMTP id a1-20020a056000100100b002bb32902540mr1736155wrx.18.1673883838727; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 07:43:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <86zgamtv6o.fsf@gmail.com> <87tu0t1i0c.fsf@localhost> <63c2aa9e.170a0220.3bb49.9ef4@mx.google.com> <87pmbhz1x6.fsf@localhost> <87wn5mlo7f.fsf@localhost> <87pmbelnd0.fsf@localhost> In-Reply-To: <87pmbelnd0.fsf@localhost> From: Daryl Manning Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2023 22:43:22 +0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda To: Ihor Radchenko Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009a5b2605f26373d8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42d; envelope-from=daryl@wakatara.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42d.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1673883905; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=YYw/8KiTAfL5LzZtwoKCekdoDtZX2ct+aFw9/3PFrQLJ605+lttvOgQEZ0flfukpDPEQF0 WduhcjYoT8e6GvZECHJQ1W7uAUmifenJpEv6n/9DKlUBtSno088F8fBuh7Ue92gEbee7Ml FLckab20WiVpyqENwk1qsdOo5dgoDR4y4xu0gFxNbi3oFoicRrW2N2XUUN1d9w+5DTMXDS pQjFJIgVmdUXVwGaXmU8AAf4Nb27K+QwthVYMkQiTMRwWT6FQe27RIdv5NQjyvoqfcJdad YaymEJ3cPIfE2E57NaSU/xJD7v8RNckY4EXoC7gx5VuyzJ9Rqd5SkO7PFEtGjQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=wakatara.com header.s=google header.b="Ko/qJtrH"; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1673883905; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=Kf9k4vllX6ptPywrMlIoozmzr2qgyylHWhXjQ6oSl0U=; b=XRkFlT+2NEpvdJgXFmsCHkTIJacNx/jw0s4tm4Rmy3rqJcQ7aHSNBPpUQ4MaePaQx0hiNp OUIIYm/3p+GdRU6iyfBVyBOARMGPfoO1ruKIcCIjn3zMOmUfBk9lQ5GPqCQrfZB61y/iQp JRegRhzmW6gVVLk3C2F27nEd2V4Wt08PFiAa1lB35F7M8T2xW9rPDtdlU9VYydtDVhpFpU d1Jdih97cElphNPBNqlZvHaU02qxTvNwwVfYFv0he/Ap+4qwl610Nbbh8B4F7mDa0J8sIe ucu4DFGxpxjl6oM7+5COHSEWHYVret7hlp5ij8yCIkgZVANfyYC5FhCNuLzAfQ== X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.03 X-Spam-Score: -4.03 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 3977115AD7 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=wakatara.com header.s=google header.b="Ko/qJtrH"; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none X-TUID: Zi2cN0H7KoOT --0000000000009a5b2605f26373d8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I agree... TZ is optionally defined in a timestamp otherwise understood to be "local". I'd just be excited to have us run through the basic use cases and then see some more "tricky" ones. I imagine there are things we'd just have to say... too tricky for (eg. flight takes off in one TZ and range allows it to land in timezone... stuff like that might be tricky.). So, is the TS syntax you've described accepted and canonical now with org-mode? Daryl. On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 6:39 PM Ihor Radchenko wrote: > Daryl Manning writes: > > > I think timezone you're in should be declared globally, surely? And then > > defined in the timestamp? > > It is always defined globally on OS level. In POSIX-complaint OSes, it is > TZ. Emacs obeys POSIX and time zone settings in other OSes. We don't > need anything special for it. > > As for time zone in timestamps - it must be optional. Timestamps with > time zone will use that time zone. Timestamps without time zone will use > "default" time zone - be it OS time zone or whatever custom time zone > setting we come up with in future. This "default" time zone approach is > both useful for things like "brush teeth in 10pm in the evening" and > also, more importantly, for backwards compatibility. > > > The use cases for per file or even per-heading tz specifying seems very > low > > imho (and introducing a lot more complexity.). > > Sure. As I mentioned in another message, not having these features should > not stop us from merging whatever working time zone code we can come up > with. They will be nice to have though. > > -- > Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, > Org mode contributor, > Learn more about Org mode at . > Support Org development at , > or support my work at > --0000000000009a5b2605f26373d8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I agree... TZ is optionally defined in a timestamp ot= herwise understood to be "local".

I= 'd just be excited to have us run through the basic use cases and then = see some more "tricky" ones. I imagine there are things we'd = just have to say... too tricky for (eg. flight takes off in one TZ and rang= e allows it to land in timezone... stuff like that might be tricky.).
<= /div>

So, is the TS syntax you've described accepted= and canonical now with org-mode?=C2=A0

Daryl= .



<= div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 6:39 PM Ihor R= adchenko <yantar92@posteo.net= > wrote:
Dary= l Manning <daryl= @wakatara.com> writes:

> I think timezone you're in should be declared globally, surely?=C2= =A0 And then
> defined in the timestamp?

It is always defined globally on OS level. In POSIX-complaint OSes, it is TZ. Emacs obeys POSIX and time zone settings in other OSes. We don't need anything special for it.

As for time zone in timestamps - it must be optional. Timestamps with
time zone will use that time zone. Timestamps without time zone will use "default" time zone - be it OS time zone or whatever custom time = zone
setting we come up with in future. This "default" time zone appro= ach is
both useful for things like "brush teeth in 10pm in the evening" = and
also, more importantly, for backwards compatibility.

> The use cases for per file or even per-heading tz specifying seems ver= y low
> imho (and introducing a lot more complexity.).

Sure. As I mentioned in another message, not having these features should not stop us from merging whatever working time zone code we can come up
with. They will be nice to have though.

--
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,=
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
--0000000000009a5b2605f26373d8--