From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Samuel Wales Subject: Re: About commit named "Allow multi-line properties to be specified in property blocks" Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 10:40:59 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87vcr5c76e.fsf@gmail.com> <87k47ic77p.fsf@altern.org> <87k47hgin2.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:46105) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ROC93-0002tQ-Na for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Nov 2011 12:41:07 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ROC92-00009l-9c for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Nov 2011 12:41:05 -0500 Received: from mail-iy0-f169.google.com ([209.85.210.169]:54981) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ROC92-00009T-6T for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Nov 2011 12:41:04 -0500 Received: by iaae16 with SMTP id e16so2400875iaa.0 for ; Wed, 09 Nov 2011 09:41:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87k47hgin2.fsf@gmail.com> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Eric Schulte Cc: Bastien , Org Mode List , Nicolas Goaziou Hi Eric, On 2011-11-03, Eric Schulte wrote: >> >> But allowing a top-level :PROPERTIES: drawer with properties >> whose scope is the entire file looks like a good idea to me. >> > > I don't see what this would add, how would this solve the need for > multi-line properties, and how would it differ from IMO being uglier > than a series of #+PROPERTY: lines. (Your quote is from Bastien, not me.) The idea the way I put it (which is with a top level entry to hold the properties drawer) is, as I stated, possibly too radical for the thread. Possibly too radical period. So feel free to ignore it. However, let me clarify because I think you might misunderstand. The idea is not to augment syntax, but reduce it. Or, if backward compatibility is desired, then reduce the need for future ambiguous-scope syntax -- which is a currently unresolved problem. In my view #+ is uglier than existing property syntax -- which has to exist anyway because it is used for all sorts of things. You can't get rid of it. (And shouldn't.) The idea is that a single top-level task, marked as such, acts as if it were a superlevel, and contains ALL information needed for the file level. So there will be no need for #+property . It is consistent syntax with the rest of Org, unlike file-level or rest-of-file #+ syntax. It is less ambiguous in scope. It is clear what it means. It is foldable. It is searchable the same way other entries are searchable. The agenda can show it if you want it to (unlike #+whatever). More consistent all the way around IMO. If I were designing Org from scratch, I probably would not suggest this. Instead, I would simply disallow file-level anything. If you want that, just use a top-level task. a/b/c -- you know, normal outline. And then export that top level subtree. To me, and this is admittedly radical, file-level operations should be deprecated. But as a compromise, since a lot of people do file-level operations, I am proposing a dedicated top level place that acts as if it is hierarchically above everything else even though it is not. That allows consistency better than #+property IMO. I am talking about the stuff at the top of the file (title, properties, etc.) Not blocks etc. Those are reasonable elsewhere. As for multiple-line properties, you can use the syntax you're currently discussing to accumulate in the properties drawer, or even use a syntax to simply allow multiple-line properties in a properties drawer. Either way. Again, probably too radical for this thread, but I wanted to clarify. Hope that clarifies. Samuel -- The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com === Bigotry against people with serious diseases is still bigotry.