From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id KKeQDvfs2mPLFAEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 23:51:35 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id QKp6Dvfs2mOXKwAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 23:51:35 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE5C829147 for ; Wed, 1 Feb 2023 23:51:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pNLwU-0000AD-1h; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 17:51:02 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pNLwR-0000A0-7Z for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 17:50:59 -0500 Received: from mail-lf1-x136.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::136]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pNLwP-0003DO-EN for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 17:50:59 -0500 Received: by mail-lf1-x136.google.com with SMTP id b3so336546lfv.2 for ; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 14:50:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:references:in-reply-to :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=XdRyPeU3xVizcRdAHf/nyY8tb4YRHGRZOB8dSfM8uA0=; b=af9HNbXrEX3bg7CbGSOkEwIPXkdDnyfVxajEZvxDgDK4md9QXAyormvz1ejV68qJ5K mUeirohs2wsreLvVFpQDIQAoNtWL/7jpiR94fAff3vCu85u0o8Y9wwVtEOK/XDtXL/j0 pei7hrMggePH2rCEb1R3/yGHimCpA3b037nqOit+Q+P0PX+fWBD6VIusOT3Sr2CzGGuW XcF2iQj68jG2f19qHLUIupmmzS4Tb5Zmjaiiik4NzwI2R7m0CVZu1pymlCPYutGRZDNS 7cjXwunz2v/QTeNIBQH/YG05ymwhhoHIO/OVLIPUyWG5wdNlCxfm/j+Zxq136OOiYVsC eWuA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:references:in-reply-to :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=XdRyPeU3xVizcRdAHf/nyY8tb4YRHGRZOB8dSfM8uA0=; b=2WSi4ICtcs9Asbz8jy8sbTMFLPGQBbwbHC4xwLng3AWnQyZFjLI6r0WGOIjlpDrbsX E+gVM5idU3uCHTi+i80dyr096q3FFF6Qik5dnmA4nXuNTSwA1qEvkFBkuqYDXsfGHld6 Sfj9zAQaQL70qgK95q+dkUXCUcjXnOs6nE+rZV9eJulNsU8xyv1kCmHaaZ71O9v7DEz7 g5GOj13yg5HinqQzTZbaPWi7DK7pWJoDgWpze9dAnxSggRWNVKqTXz7e9kZHhwEa0U4u 5/0NRY+FriD59rAtWTqZWuT9kqvNBWdfpWpzFtrAwHJ81mCWKahO84VsKCssugGlJHgS s5Gg== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKUzjkrnxAIq8Nyeq0Y8mGXjdOwRu3EU+SetWtZ4ZYRwxutMPwih Sw7DYMDoNwgDGmIMEWMY4mN6gQsRNIjblHKxB3c= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set/F7hxzuwhHzUMLZgyoUjvSWd9W9BdGeuFMW03wQ6gkxcs6tEuf82SgRI6fk1CifNftsWoP7gLOF+X4Diz5JKc= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:114f:b0:4ca:f9e3:c324 with SMTP id m15-20020a056512114f00b004caf9e3c324mr695903lfg.190.1675291854807; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 14:50:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:aa6:c266:0:b0:23b:5e81:46ba with HTTP; Wed, 1 Feb 2023 14:50:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5dbbab8f-bec8-9272-2a07-b8e484b93c85@gmx.at> References: <63ca1283.170a0220.5bc81.0fdd@mx.google.com> <87pmb9k8oi.fsf@tsdye.online> <3035CDD5-41DD-4516-9E4E-9E0DF16BE2E0@gmail.com> <87lelo8c9r.fsf@localhost> <2150768.1675077958@archlinux> <87tu063ox2.fsf@localhost> <87r0v9sio1.fsf@christianmoe.com> <87edr9lgq6.fsf@localhost> <87o7qdsf7h.fsf@christianmoe.com> <87v8kljz3n.fsf@localhost> <5dbbab8f-bec8-9272-2a07-b8e484b93c85@gmx.at> From: Samuel Wales Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2023 15:50:53 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO (was: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info To: Heinz Tuechler Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::136; envelope-from=samologist@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x136.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1675291895; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=XdRyPeU3xVizcRdAHf/nyY8tb4YRHGRZOB8dSfM8uA0=; b=iAfp3ayjgGWG2D1pUAtbxYk9Y5pR8QCJFxRvVZIAIVG3CvHtcvlXU07FtvHCsMzezb2E+w AM5nc8xYPzsQBAJFnFgNEN6E5z009fm0QgDM/lzcWDy/FFvABdhVDyP2WzDMWH1GKwq/jo JJHkK7M3WQVHy2JsqJFpuTZId0dLcKRlhrmF+osbGVTKQsEp0FumD2JHN/xEKkWhas3Trj BYu90avnuIrxfyGlKTmJv5k26oaOeqxtzkAFEMOEjcxgvKl+7B8R7IcwNMKuOoEXALi5hj 6SzK3lHYxjO5lgshUytNuNGSfgxiV1IQLN8F+117HiQakT2sO+hNzzfvd2fomA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=af9HNbXr; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1675291895; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=EiZAIID3joL8FstPZdFoCRmPqxFrvH/t8OafYMxbls9pZmBISeu5heztM8OQDW9Vf3Ir/0 ukhVJbBP/LTmyqhoHuXuGkaUTpiOUkiu0s9rsG8Dg6TK4G5MtiXnTo0394Pv/KxUWVJR8V Ti3cSnifsMj5kQLasBwzKByddIfh+79Sc4Ga5e40MaDQ9T7WbqAb2nFY8BG1v7XtVnBi+Z hmq9H37PC8x288zYibCbnO5Iv12Qsa/sbKpz6kWupapgt7dwTmnc6Y1cebuFh7Y3TPqIsg StbNnDUBMZ7WCE3v12NFj1KmdhSqzFwx6s+gduD2DxDU+LNLDgV3X19SmgJvQw== Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=af9HNbXr; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-Spam-Score: -5.87 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: BE5C829147 X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.87 X-TUID: 9u3AIA+R7w3R perhaps some cities are not listed? what is one supposed to do then? find a city with equivalent geography and tz policy? On 2/1/23, Heinz Tuechler wrote: > tomas@tuxteam.de wrote/hat geschrieben on/am 01.02.2023 14:51: >> On Wed, Feb 01, 2023 at 01:26:36PM +0000, Ihor Radchenko wrote: >>> [ adding Org ML back to CC ] >>> >>> Christian Moe writes: >>> >>>>> Note, however, that because we are conforming to POSIX TZ, @UTC+2 is >>>>> two >>>>> hours _behind_ the Greenwich. >>>> >>>> Ouch. >>> >>> This is probably something we need to discuss further. >>> >>> Dear All, >>> >>> There is potential confusion coming from the different interpretations >>> of the time zone offsets used in ISO8601 and POSIX TZ specs: >> >> This is unfortunate indeed. I'd tend to pick one and not to allow >> both, out of fear of counfusion. And if I had to pick one, I'd pick >> ISO, which I've seen more often in the wild. But this might quite >> well be some sort of bias. >> >> Cheers >> > Same for me, I usually see ISO offset. Further, I am used to exchange > time designations (CET, EST, PDT,...) instead of [continent/city] > timezone names. My impression is that many of non experts like me don't > know in which time zone they are living. Is it trivial to find the > [continent/city] timezone name to a specific place? > best, Heinz > > -- The Kafka Pandemic A blog about science, health, human rights, and misopathy: https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com