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From: Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com>
To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net>
Cc: Matt <matt@excalamus.com>, numbchild <numbchild@gmail.com>,
	 emacs-orgmode <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Remove "shell" as a supported Babel language within ob-shell.el (was Re: [SUGGESTION] ob-shell async result output should not contains shell prompt)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2023 22:47:15 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAJcAo8sc7a3+utu_=c4sbf324ncodfgB3Zyr9SvZzg3OLsNvGA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87h6uaxtt9.fsf@localhost>

i have a vague memory of having used sh and then we were told to use
shell.  can we all use begin src sh now?

On 3/24/23, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> wrote:
> Matt <matt@excalamus.com> writes:
>
>> What benefit does "shell" provide?
>>
>> - The "shell" language allows an arbitrary executable to be run.  This
>> means that shells other than those given in `org-babel-shell-names' can be
>> run.  People using a non-supported shell could still benefit from
>> ob-shell.
>>
>> What downsides does "shell" bring?
>>
>> - "shell" falls back to `shell-file-name' which can be an arbitrary
>> executable.  Whenever I hear "runs an arbitrary executable", my ears perk
>> up and I start to sweat.  There may be security considerations.
>> - If that executable is a shell, then the prompt gets set independently
>> from Emacs.  For the prompt to be filtered from the output, users would
>> need to provide Emacs with the correct regexp.  A recent thread discussed
>> creating a header arg to address this:
>> https://list.orgmode.org/87ttzgeg3w.fsf@localhost/
>> - We would get bug reports about non-supported shells which kind of work,
>> but have issues because they're not supported
>> - Maintence associated with supporting arbitrary (shell) executables
>>
>> As the current maintainer of ob-shell, I'm in favor of removing "shell" as
>> a Babel language.  The cons appear to far outweigh the pros.  However, I'm
>> aware others may have good use for it.  It's been a part of Org for nearly
>> a decade.  I'm sure it's part of people's workflow, especially since it's
>> been in the manual for 6 years.  Are there any pros, cons, use-cases, or
>> considerations I've overlooked?
>
> I would not see arbitrary executable to be such a big deal. At the end,
> if SHELL is set to something fishy, the user is likely in serious
> trouble anyway. SHELL is a part POSIX standard at the end.
>
> Yet, the problem with unsupported shells is indeed real.
> Moreover, "shell" code blocks are currently not portable to different
> environments.
>
> I suggest the following:
> 1. Introduce a new customization `org-babel-default-shell', defaulting
>    to (or (executable-find "sh") (executable-find "cmd.exe")).
> 2. Use the value as default shell in "shell" code blocks.
> 3. Document and announce the change.
> 4. Create org-lint checker that will mark "shell" code blocks as not
>    desired.
>
> The above steps will ensure minimal breakage for existing uses of
> "shell" blocks. Only users who wrote shell blocks for non-standard shell
> will have to adapt.
>
> --
> Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
> Org mode contributor,
> Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
> Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
> or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
>
>


-- 
The Kafka Pandemic

A blog about science, health, human rights, and misopathy:
https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com


  reply	other threads:[~2023-03-25 12:16 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 72+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-02-06 19:39 [PATCH] Async evaluation in ob-shell Matt
2023-02-07 11:40 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-09  4:33   ` Matt
2023-02-09 11:24     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-10 22:19       ` Matt
2023-02-11 11:44         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-12 19:32           ` Matt
2023-02-15 15:08             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-16  4:02               ` Matt
2023-02-17 10:44                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-19 23:14                   ` Matt
2023-02-20 11:24                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-20 17:24                       ` Matt
2023-02-22 10:30                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-02  1:36                           ` Matt
2023-03-03 14:52                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-03 17:53                               ` Matt
2023-03-05 12:15                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-06  6:45                                   ` Matt
2023-03-07 12:45                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-09 17:36                                       ` Matt
2023-03-10  1:52                                         ` Max Nikulin
2023-03-12 16:28                                         ` Jack Kamm
2023-03-18 10:48                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-21 20:29                                           ` Matt
2023-03-22 12:12                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-23 11:50                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-23 19:35                                               ` Matt
2023-03-24  9:13                                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-28  2:53                                                   ` Matt
2023-03-28 10:06                                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-04-17 15:31                                                   ` Matt
2023-04-17 18:55                                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-04-17 18:56                                                       ` Matt
2023-04-17 19:05                                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-23  3:25       ` [SUGGESTION] ob-shell async result output should not contains shell prompt Christopher M. Miles
2023-03-23  4:21         ` Matt
2023-03-23 11:12           ` Christopher M. Miles
2023-03-23 16:23             ` Matt
2023-03-24 11:20               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-23 16:26             ` Remove "shell" as a supported Babel language within ob-shell.el (was Re: [SUGGESTION] ob-shell async result output should not contains shell prompt) Matt
2023-03-24  1:53               ` Remove "shell" as a supported Babel language within ob-shell.el Christopher M. Miles
2023-03-24 11:38               ` Remove "shell" as a supported Babel language within ob-shell.el (was Re: [SUGGESTION] ob-shell async result output should not contains shell prompt) Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-25  5:47                 ` Samuel Wales [this message]
2023-03-25 18:07                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-28  2:33                 ` Matt
2023-02-11 20:56 ` [PATCH] Async evaluation in ob-shell jackkamm
2023-02-12 19:02   ` Matt
2023-02-13  3:16     ` Jack Kamm
2023-02-13 17:07       ` [BUG] shell sessions started outside of Babel broken Matt
2023-02-15  6:19         ` Jack Kamm
2023-02-16 12:53           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-19 15:04             ` Jack Kamm
2023-02-20 11:22               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-21  5:23                 ` Jack Kamm
2023-02-22 10:38                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-25 16:55               ` Jack Kamm
2023-03-25 16:59                 ` [PATCH] Fix externally started sessions with ob-python Jack Kamm
2023-02-13 20:11       ` [BUG] conda doesn't work in ob-shell sessions Matt
2023-02-15  6:21         ` Jack Kamm
2024-01-18 11:55           ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-01-21 22:48             ` Jack Kamm
2024-01-22  3:42               ` Jack Kamm
2024-01-22 11:59                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-01-23  6:09                   ` Jack Kamm
2024-01-24 15:22                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-01-25 19:14                       ` Matt
2024-01-25 20:36                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-01-26  0:42                       ` Jack Kamm
2024-01-27 10:25                         ` Matt
2024-02-09 16:37                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-01-23 18:51               ` Suhail Singh

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