emacs-orgmode@gnu.org archives
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
* blank todo kw does not delete closed ts
@ 2013-04-09 22:13 Samuel Wales
  2013-04-10  7:31 ` Bastien
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Samuel Wales @ 2013-04-09 22:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Changing a doneified entry to blank todo state leaves a
closed ts.

#+BEGIN_SRC org
  ,* DONE doneify
  CLOSED: [2013-04-09 Tue 14:11]
  ,* now change to blank todo kw -- notice the closed ts
  CLOSED: [2013-04-09 Tue 14:11]
#+END_SRC

Perhaps it would be more intuitive for newcomers, and safer
for expiry searches like "+CLOSED<\"<-1m>\"" where not
everybody thinks to try to match all done todo keywords (not
even sure what the convention is for that), to remove the
ts.

Thanks.

Samuel

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

The disease DOES progress.  MANY people have died from it.  ANYBODY
can get it.  There is NO hope without action.  This means YOU.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: blank todo kw does not delete closed ts
  2013-04-09 22:13 blank todo kw does not delete closed ts Samuel Wales
@ 2013-04-10  7:31 ` Bastien
  2013-04-12  2:34   ` Samuel Wales
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Bastien @ 2013-04-10  7:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Samuel Wales; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Hi Samuel,

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> Changing a doneified entry to blank todo state leaves a
> closed ts.
>
> #+BEGIN_SRC org
>   ,* DONE doneify
>   CLOSED: [2013-04-09 Tue 14:11]
>   ,* now change to blank todo kw -- notice the closed ts
>   CLOSED: [2013-04-09 Tue 14:11]
> #+END_SRC
>
> Perhaps it would be more intuitive for newcomers, and safer
> for expiry searches like "+CLOSED<\"<-1m>\"" where not
> everybody thinks to try to match all done todo keywords (not
> even sure what the convention is for that), to remove the
> ts.

I'm not sure about this one.  Seems logical to keep the CLOSED
information for tasks that have been done once and that do not
have (new) active TODO keywords yet.

-- 
 Bastien

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: blank todo kw does not delete closed ts
  2013-04-10  7:31 ` Bastien
@ 2013-04-12  2:34   ` Samuel Wales
  2013-04-12  2:38     ` Samuel Wales
  2013-04-12 15:57     ` Bastien
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Samuel Wales @ 2013-04-12  2:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Hi Bastien,

On 4/10/13, Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> wrote:
>> Changing a doneified entry to blank todo state leaves a
>> closed ts.
>>
>> #+BEGIN_SRC org
>>   ,* DONE doneify
>>   CLOSED: [2013-04-09 Tue 14:11]
>>   ,* now change to blank todo kw -- notice the closed ts
>>   CLOSED: [2013-04-09 Tue 14:11]
>> #+END_SRC
>>
>> Perhaps it would be more intuitive for newcomers, and safer
>> for expiry searches like "+CLOSED<\"<-1m>\"" where not
>> everybody thinks to try to match all done todo keywords (not
>> even sure what the convention is for that), to remove the
>> ts.
>
> I'm not sure about this one.  Seems logical to keep the CLOSED
> information for tasks that have been done once and that do not
> have (new) active TODO keywords yet.

I think it depends on how you look at it.

For a different use case from yours:

I view blank entries as just another todo state.  To me, I want the
same behavior (deleting the closed timestamp because I *reversed* the
doneification) for switching to blank as switching to any other todo
state.  This keeps things orthogonal and therefore predictable.

The closed timestamp is not a notation (that is what state logs are
for), but a semantic indication of closedness that is useful for
expiry.  Reversing the done should in my use case (but not yours) undo
the closedness.

I wanted to to expire closed entries, and did this:

          ("ne" "clean up by expired CLOSED"
           tags "+CLOSED<\"<-1m>\""
           ((org-tags-match-list-sublevels nil)
            (org-agenda-sorting-strategy
             '(category-up user-defined-up))))

This will expire blank entries also.  I thought closed = doneish
because I prefer the orthogonal approach.  I think some other users
will also.

Of course the user can try to figure out how to say TODO=done& (or
something), but might not think to do so at first.

I have never changed doneish to blank without having to delete the
timestamp.  I thought that was a bug and did not realize that you had
a use case for making blank entries different from other todo states.

FWIW.

Samuel

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

The disease DOES progress.  MANY people have died from it.  ANYBODY
can get it.  There is NO hope without action.  This means YOU.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: blank todo kw does not delete closed ts
  2013-04-12  2:34   ` Samuel Wales
@ 2013-04-12  2:38     ` Samuel Wales
  2013-04-12 15:57     ` Bastien
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Samuel Wales @ 2013-04-12  2:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

BTW, not critical.  However, todo state orthogonality is worth raising
from the perspective of what is most intuitive for new users.

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

The disease DOES progress.  MANY people have died from it.  ANYBODY
can get it.  There is NO hope without action.  This means YOU.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: blank todo kw does not delete closed ts
  2013-04-12  2:34   ` Samuel Wales
  2013-04-12  2:38     ` Samuel Wales
@ 2013-04-12 15:57     ` Bastien
  2013-04-13 20:27       ` Samuel Wales
  2013-04-14  2:23       ` Brian van den Broek
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Bastien @ 2013-04-12 15:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Samuel Wales; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Hi Samuel,

I'm convinved now, and switching to "state" without any TODO keyword
will now remove the CLOSED planning information.

Thanks,

-- 
 Bastien

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: blank todo kw does not delete closed ts
  2013-04-12 15:57     ` Bastien
@ 2013-04-13 20:27       ` Samuel Wales
  2013-04-14  2:23       ` Brian van den Broek
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Samuel Wales @ 2013-04-13 20:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

On 4/12/13, Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> wrote:
> I'm convinved now, and switching to "state" without any TODO keyword
> will now remove the CLOSED planning information.

Thanks, Bastien.  One of the great things about Org is its attention
to detail, and that includes little orthogonality pieces.

Samuel

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

The disease DOES progress.  MANY people have died from it.  ANYBODY
can get it.  There is NO hope without action.  This means YOU.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: blank todo kw does not delete closed ts
  2013-04-12 15:57     ` Bastien
  2013-04-13 20:27       ` Samuel Wales
@ 2013-04-14  2:23       ` Brian van den Broek
  2013-04-14  8:53         ` Bastien
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Brian van den Broek @ 2013-04-14  2:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 425 bytes --]

On 12 Apr 2013 11:58, "Bastien" <bzg@gnu.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Samuel,
>
> I'm convinved now, and switching to "state" without any TODO keyword
> will now remove the CLOSED planning information.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
>  Bastien

Hi Bastien and all,

I am afriad you saw this coming:

Could that be an option? I actively would want to preserve the closed note
to keep an accurate history of my work with the task.

Best,

Brian vdB

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 621 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: blank todo kw does not delete closed ts
  2013-04-14  2:23       ` Brian van den Broek
@ 2013-04-14  8:53         ` Bastien
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Bastien @ 2013-04-14  8:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Brian van den Broek; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Hi Brian,

Brian van den Broek <brian.van.den.broek@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi Bastien and all,
>
> I am afriad you saw this coming:

I somehow was, but I played ostrich here :)

> Could that be an option? I actively would want to preserve the closed
> note to keep an accurate history of my work with the task.

There is now `org-closed-keep-when-no-todo', defaulting to nil.

Thanks,

-- 
 Bastien

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2013-04-14  9:48 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2013-04-09 22:13 blank todo kw does not delete closed ts Samuel Wales
2013-04-10  7:31 ` Bastien
2013-04-12  2:34   ` Samuel Wales
2013-04-12  2:38     ` Samuel Wales
2013-04-12 15:57     ` Bastien
2013-04-13 20:27       ` Samuel Wales
2013-04-14  2:23       ` Brian van den Broek
2013-04-14  8:53         ` Bastien

Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).