From: John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: "Bruce D'Arcus" <bdarcus@gmail.com>
Cc: Tom Gillespie <tgbugs@gmail.com>, Org Mode List <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Expanding how the new cite syntax is used to include cross-references - thoughts?
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 17:16:19 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAJ51ETr2Sq8MXuHVX6CMqdMBeYcZcfGGir_HBWOZF9rwyO2JEw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAF-FPGNEwpsecnPoTsq4UCz_uZJA41ngZ6x31w4_D-xc57Rtog@mail.gmail.com>
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I think the existing link capability of org-mode is completely adequate for
cross-references. LaTeX exports are almost completely covered in org-ref. I
made a refproc (
https://github.com/jkitchin/org-ref/blob/org-ref-3/org-ref-refproc.el) that
provides similar export behavior for other backends in a pre-processing
hook. It supports the concepts in autoref and cleveref by replacing the
org-links with an appropriate org syntax that then exports natively. For
example, if cref:name references a table, it would get replaced by "Table
[[name]]" in the buffer and then exported to the desired backend.
All of these are references to two tables named b1 and b2
- ref :: ref:b1
- autoref :: autoref:b1
- nameref :: nameref:b1
- pageref :: pageref:b1
- cref :: cref:b1
- cref, two :: cref:b1,b2
- Cref :: Cref:b1
- Cref, two :: Cref:b1,b2
and they are converted to this plain org syntax (which basically mirrors
what would happen in a LaTeX export).
- ref :: [[b1]]
- autoref :: Tab. [[b1]]
- nameref :: [[b1][this is a table b1.]]
- pageref :: [[b1]]
- cref :: Tab. [[b1]]
- cref, two :: Tabs. [[b1]] and [[b2]]
- Cref :: Tab. [[b1]]
- Cref, two :: Tabs. [[b1]] and [[b2]]
There are some options to control if the clever parts are abbreviated
and/or capitalized.
This should be part of org-ref on Melpa next week.
John
-----------------------------------
Professor John Kitchin (he/him/his)
Doherty Hall A207F
Department of Chemical Engineering
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
412-268-7803
@johnkitchin
http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu
On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 9:30 AM Bruce D'Arcus <bdarcus@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can we go back to this question of whether internal links are adequate
> for cross-references, and if not, what's missing?
>
> On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 11:22 AM Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > Hello John & co.,
> >
> > I need to chime in when it comes to the UI:
> >
> > On Thursday, 12 Aug 2021 at 13:19, John Kitchin wrote:
> > > I would say the UI that I like, have used for many years, and is the
> > > default of org-ref is:
> > >
> > > 1. You type C-c ] to insert a citation
> > > 2. You type C-u C-c ] to insert a cross-reference
> > > 3. you type C-u C-u C-c ] to insert a new label.
> >
> > UI is a very personal thing. So long as there are 3 different functions
> > that implement these actions, I would be happy...
>
> [snip]
>
> > In terms of the bigger picture, citations and cross-references, to me,
> > are different things (one is external and the other usually internal,
> > respectively) and I see no benefit in conflating them. I am also still
> > not convinced that org links are not sufficient ...
>
> In reviewing and playing with this functionality a bit, it's clear to
> me that internal links are intended to be cross-references, even if
> they fall short for certain classes of users.
>
> Let's take a simple example of a figure, adapted from the manual:
>
> #+begin_example
> #+CAPTION: This is the caption.
> #+NAME: fig:SED-HR4049
> [[./img/a.jpg]]
>
> Here's a cross-reference to Figure [[fig:SED-HR4049]].
> #+end_example
>
> This internal link seems to produce consistent and correct output
> across latex, html, and odt.
>
> The "fig" prefix is meaningful to ref in latex to enable it to type
> that cross-reference. I'm unsure how typing in the odt context works,
> but it does.
>
> The only downside is one has to manually, per the example, insert the
> prefix (here "Figure ") in text (though this is a small price to pay
> in my view).
>
> If one wants to use cleveref or autoref instead, as is now possible
> with a recent commit, those packages handle that automatically. But of
> course, this only works in latex, so you lose the consistency across
> the backends.
>
> Also, you then need to be able to specify different variants locally
> (for example, cref vs Cref), which is not possible currently.
>
> So I'm unclear: is that added functionality and complexity really
> needed? Is there something else I'm missing?
>
> A separate, possibly more important (?), matter is UI and supporting
> functionality.
>
> I think it would be nice to have better UI support for inserting these
> references.
>
> To John's point, could we add interactive functions to insert labels
> and cross-references (say as customizable functions?), using the
> existing internal link support, and iterate that support over time?
>
> Bruce
>
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-10-12 21:17 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 22+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-08-11 0:58 Expanding how the new cite syntax is used to include cross-references - thoughts? John Kitchin
2021-08-11 1:19 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-08-11 5:28 ` Tom Gillespie
2021-08-11 11:13 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-08-11 11:54 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-08-11 13:43 ` John Kitchin
2021-08-11 14:32 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-08-11 14:56 ` John Kitchin
2021-08-11 15:41 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-08-11 16:08 ` Timothy
2021-08-11 16:26 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-08-11 14:13 ` John Kitchin
2021-08-12 15:23 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-08-12 17:19 ` John Kitchin
2021-08-12 18:06 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-08-13 15:22 ` Eric S Fraga
2021-10-10 13:30 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-10-12 21:16 ` John Kitchin [this message]
2021-10-12 21:58 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-10-12 23:27 ` John Kitchin
2021-10-13 0:08 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-08-11 13:23 ` John Kitchin
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