From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id 8IQFK00tm15maAAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 16:39:41 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id sF7HOFEtm14RawAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 16:39:45 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 943D2941CDF for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 16:39:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:59926 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jPqVM-0001jU-GT for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 12:39:44 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52158) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jPqUq-0001ei-4U for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 12:39:14 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jPqUn-0007qG-Nu for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 12:39:11 -0400 Received: from mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2f]:33810) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jPqUn-0007pk-FY for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 12:39:09 -0400 Received: by mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com with SMTP id l84so2837297ybb.1 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 09:39:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=C1DsevdtTyXmm0mA0DU29+zyXEI/HwFaMzEcuvVsh2Q=; b=esGIsOol35OND0Xlw7xGyyLAm/6GfuNmsGx2Bg3caOSoBwJo2O5UoZNzPNpwh3CfZd va6hd9Ua/UYgZk0iWEskuPNW/QHHsg12k0vkHS3UkSgBaUVhPOmt/5ADjHL6APGbK5fB ueA+AcXS2hyuGoJqQICivIf/UAODWk3rTrZXuj6SOMf2Fi1FztQyRp0ZIqudB9mOumR4 vaij7Wtmqm3ouRW1Jc1eolvMvpi+JDm6GqFf+Xij0ZAcZodcjTqSpedEEy1Mq/EXekJc seJDCWjjJ0F74uerpZuO8OwTBTVxcHMd5ecfv++DNti10HIU1Hq4DaLp3kGkv2v050qP gl0w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=C1DsevdtTyXmm0mA0DU29+zyXEI/HwFaMzEcuvVsh2Q=; b=FXTnFlYqvu+8+5kFfhQ/lEPmICzLjPloOMNdplZrlqLHHudtl2QFwEuupvIrJwJDIk irYvdpSa3BnMdc8oQQ0lNx+QIxdCtjxKkXoecTKZX/5p2PxS3OSTutqaxxIHe5ivyD2c 0Vh90LuUoJXF7zEt7SrjPGNfNUHFipONufQZlK3ywZ0Ja27kthIU6YhaLcdurIOw5/11 q6eqoGFLIQQQ+1YPqpz6g6WM2EOcXd25o8BIoX82VmNH71+IJLi0Ri4a3EWyOviu4VxT LQjCe7lD3wM2TJIWLM8h4WQ8kMGm9Kusd9f107IW/D5aEC7i9qeU2cVU3CcLnZhq3BIU G1yQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubQdn0a3/reli5DlbLUmMkfuvmDyf9TqH3N+KMBrQop1bwcg08r hqR5f8dpZM1KAskkGeG68BlCcr4biswFVfT9CV9VDOXF X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypIbJ1qlwp9w1m73EY6UEr46hDv/KcLVGxrHTP7p7dNFlVWtt6YY3r/LXQ6OIH21pvqK8LBZVGciiucrIwPeUkc= X-Received: by 2002:a25:de41:: with SMTP id v62mr1793603ybg.458.1587227948495; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 09:39:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87v9lz1h1v.fsf@th-koeln.de> <874ktgc2u1.fsf@gmail.com> <87h7xgu8ky.fsf@th-koeln.de> In-Reply-To: <87h7xgu8ky.fsf@th-koeln.de> From: Ken Mankoff Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 09:38:32 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Overleaf equivalent for org-babel users? To: "Prof. Dr. Johanna May" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000c37b405a3934e40" X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2f X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: scn0 X-Spam-Score: 0.69 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=esGIsOol; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Scan-Result: default: False [0.69 / 13.00]; GENERIC_REPUTATION(0.00)[-0.57422059837131]; MX_INVALID(1.00)[cached]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.51.188.0/24:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; IP_REPUTATION_HAM(0.00)[asn: 22989(0.25), country: US(-0.01), ip: 209.51.188.17(-0.57)]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MAILLIST(-0.20)[mailman]; FORGED_RECIPIENTS_MAILLIST(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[209.51.188.17:from]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:22989, ipnet:209.51.188.0/24, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[larch=yhetil.org]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; URIBL_BLOCKED(0.00)[cocalc.com:url,test.org:url,th-koeln.de:email,markup.rocks:url]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[mankoff@gmail.com,emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[emacs-orgmode@gnu.org]; HAS_LIST_UNSUB(-0.01)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER_MAILLIST(0.00)[] X-TUID: Pk+zS8S7UGxM --0000000000000c37b405a3934e40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've looked a bit more into what Joseph linked to. What about using Org locally on your computer, and sharing an http://markup.rocks + DropBox access to your Org files for non-emacs collaborators? If CoCalc provides something you need that you don't have locally, you could combine CoCalc + Markup.Rocks. I heard (and CoCalc repeats) here https://doc.cocalc.com/howto/external-tools.html that DropBox won't work on certain linux filesystems, but I have never run into this issue yet, so it may work. On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 8:17 AM Prof. Dr. Johanna May < johanna.may@th-koeln.de> wrote: > Dear Ken, > > thank you very much. I'm looking into cocalc now. I already got it to > compile some test.org file as pdf. I also set up a test file there in > order to start finding out how to do this. Next step, I guess, would be > to see, if org-babel works. Unfortunately, it looks like > a bit more work since for collaboration I need to find out about > versioning and testing the stuff and also about how to get some very > simple interface working there, maybe for small edits github is > nicer. But I have to admit, my experience on tramp (what is that?) and > git is very limited, so I don't yet have an idea of how to set that up > in a good way. > > Jupyter Notebooks are not what I feel is right for lecture notes in that > subject since they cannot display circuitikz and latex export is not the > way it should be. It's not a programming class I'm teaching and many > students do prefer the pdf they can either print out or annotate in some > software on their tablets or just display on their smartphone. The exam > is in writing and on paper. > > I do also provide some jupyter notebooks, but only for the interested > part of the class and they surely can manage without that. As always, > such options are rather taken up by the more skilled, and not so much by > the weaker students, unfortunately. > > Cheers, have a good weekend! > > J > > Am Samstag, 18. April 2020 um 15:59 schrieb Ken Mankoff ... > > Hi Dr. May, > > > > Unfortunately I have not found Emacs + Org to be the right tools when > collaborating. What we need is a way for Org wrap/interface/edit Jupyter > Notebooks, since that seems to be becoming the standard. Unfortunately. > > > > I have had some luck with a hybrid approach using the Sage Notebook > server. That project is no longer active (perhaps due to the success of > Jupyter Notebooks?), but I think you can do something similar with either > Google Colab https://colab.research.google.com or more likely CoCalc > https://cocalc.com/ > > > > Google Collab is just an interface to Jupyter Notebooks. > > > > CoCalc can also just run Jupyter Notebooks, but also lets you have a > full Linux environment, bash shell, ssh, git, etc. I think you may need t= o > pay for this level of service, but you could then run emacs remotely via > ssh, or locally and use tramp. If the backend is git you may be able to > work locally and sync with the webserver interface to the tools that your > colleagues would see. > > > > I still don't think your colleagues would be directly editing your Org > source though, but you may be able to get close to what you're looking fo= r > on those sites. Good luck, and please do post back here if you come up wi= th > a good solution. > > > > -k. > > > > On 2020-04-16 at 10:22 -07, Prof. Dr. Johanna May > > wrote... > >> Hey there, > >> > >> I've been preparing lecture notes with org-mode and lualatex export > >> that include python diagrams and so on for about more than a year. Now > >> my colleagues and team start to get interested in tweaking the > >> results. Therefore, we would need some kind of online collaboration > >> solution similar to overleaf that can compile the latex including the > >> python (org-babel) inserts. And, obviously, versioning would also come > >> in handy, so that would rather be github / gitlab functionality. > >> > >> Does anyone know of a solution like overleaf that can be used for > >> that? Could you point me at your description of any setup needed? Or, > >> alternatively, do you have some good description of how to set up a > >> server / virtual machine that can do that? (at best including a > >> virtual emacs interface, so not all users have to do all the > >> installations locally)? If so, that description would also interest > >> me. > >> > >> I would like to either use some online platform like overleaf or > >> explain to my university colleagues who already have servers running > >> what they could do for me. > >> > >> The problem is, that the collaboration colleagues are not good friends > >> with coding (they prefer word to latex, excel to python ... until now, > >> at least), so I'm not very inclined to suggest them to start using > >> emacs. I would very much prefer some web-based solution to get them > >> started. Also, such a solution might provide ways of having students > >> contribute smaller bits and pieces without having to go thru the whole > >> learning curve of learning the use of emacs, installing all the tools, > >> etc.pp. Any ideas? > >> > >> Thank you very much! > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> J. May > > > -- > Prof. Dr. Johanna May > Stellvertretende Institutsleiterin CIRE > Fakult=C3=A4t f=C3=BCr Informations-, Medien- und Elektrotechnik (F07) > Institut f=C3=BCr Elektrische Energietechnik (IET) > Cologne Institute for Renewable Energy (CIRE) > Lehrgebiete: Energieeffizienz und Grundlagen Elektrotechnik > > T: +49 221-8275-2697 > M: +49 174 891 9002 > E: johanna.may@th-koeln.de > > Technische Hochschule K=C3=B6ln > Campus Deutz > Betzdorfer Str. 2 > 50679 K=C3=B6ln > Raum: HW2-40 > > www.th-koeln.de > --0000000000000c37b405a3934e40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I've looked a bit more into what Joseph linked to= . What about using Org locally on your computer, and sharing an http://markup.rocks + DropBox access to your Org f= iles for non-emacs collaborators?

If CoCalc provid= es something you need that you don't have locally, you could combine Co= Calc + Markup.Rocks. I heard (and CoCalc repeats) here https://doc.cocalc.com/howto/exter= nal-tools.html that DropBox won't work on certain linux filesystems= , but I have never run into this issue yet, so it may work.

=
On Sat, Ap= r 18, 2020 at 8:17 AM Prof. Dr. Johanna May <johanna.may@th-koeln.de> wrote:
Dear Ken,

thank you very much. I'm looking into cocalc now. I already got it to compile some test.org file as pdf. I also set up a test file there in
order to start finding out how to do this. Next step, I guess, would be
to see, if org-babel works. Unfortunately, it looks like
a bit more work since for collaboration I need to find out about
versioning and testing the stuff and also about how to get some very
simple interface working there, maybe for small edits github is
nicer. But I have to admit, my experience on tramp (what is that?) and
git is very limited, so I don't yet have an idea of how to set that up<= br> in a good way.

Jupyter Notebooks are not what I feel is right for lecture notes in that subject since they cannot display circuitikz and latex export is not the way it should be. It's not a programming class I'm teaching and man= y
students do prefer the pdf they can either print out or annotate in some software on their tablets or just display on their smartphone. The exam
is in writing and on paper.

I do also provide some jupyter notebooks, but only for the interested
part of the class and they surely can manage without that. As always,
such options are rather taken up by the more skilled, and not so much by the weaker students, unfortunately.

Cheers, have a good weekend!

J

Am Samstag, 18. April 2020 um 15:59 schrieb Ken Mankoff ...
> Hi Dr. May,
>
> Unfortunately I have not found Emacs + Org to be the right tools when = collaborating. What we need is a way for Org wrap/interface/edit Jupyter No= tebooks, since that seems to be becoming the standard. Unfortunately.
>
> I have had some luck with a hybrid approach using the Sage Notebook se= rver. That project is no longer active (perhaps due to the success of Jupyt= er Notebooks?), but I think you can do something similar with either Google= Colab https://colab.research.google.com or more likely CoCalc = https:= //cocalc.com/
>
> Google Collab is just an interface to Jupyter Notebooks.
>
> CoCalc can also just run Jupyter Notebooks, but also lets you have a f= ull Linux environment, bash shell, ssh, git, etc. I think you may need to p= ay for this level of service, but you could then run emacs remotely via ssh= , or locally and use tramp. If the backend is git you may be able to work l= ocally and sync with the webserver interface to the tools that your colleag= ues would see.
>
> I still don't think your colleagues would be directly editing your= Org source though, but you may be able to get close to what you're loo= king for on those sites. Good luck, and please do post back here if you com= e up with a good solution.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0-k.
>
> On 2020-04-16 at 10:22 -07, Prof. Dr. Johanna May
> <johan= na.may@th-koeln.de> wrote...
>> Hey there,
>>
>> I've been preparing lecture notes with org-mode and lualatex e= xport
>> that include python diagrams and so on for about more than a year.= Now
>> my colleagues and team start to get interested in tweaking the
>> results. Therefore, we would need some kind of online collaboratio= n
>> solution similar to overleaf that can compile the latex including = the
>> python (org-babel) inserts. And, obviously, versioning would also = come
>> in handy, so that would rather be github / gitlab functionality. >>
>> Does anyone know of a solution like overleaf that can be used for<= br> >> that? Could you point me at your description of any setup needed? = Or,
>> alternatively, do you have some good description of how to set up = a
>> server / virtual machine that can do that? (at best including a >> virtual emacs interface, so not all users have to do all the
>> installations locally)? If so, that description would also interes= t
>> me.
>>
>> I would like to either use some online platform like overleaf or >> explain to my university colleagues who already have servers runni= ng
>> what they could do for me.
>>
>> The problem is, that the collaboration colleagues are not good fri= ends
>> with coding (they prefer word to latex, excel to python ... until = now,
>> at least), so I'm not very inclined to suggest them to start u= sing
>> emacs. I would very much prefer some web-based solution to get the= m
>> started. Also, such a solution might provide ways of having studen= ts
>> contribute smaller bits and pieces without having to go thru the w= hole
>> learning curve of learning the use of emacs, installing all the to= ols,
>> etc.pp. Any ideas?
>>
>> Thank you very much!
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> J. May


--
Prof. Dr. Johanna May
Stellvertretende Institutsleiterin CIRE
Fakult=C3=A4t f=C3=BCr Informations-, Medien- und Elektrotechnik (F07)
Institut f=C3=BCr Elektrische Energietechnik (IET)
Cologne Institute for Renewable Energy (CIRE)
Lehrgebiete: Energieeffizienz und Grundlagen Elektrotechnik

T: +49 221-8275-2697
M: +49 174 891 9002
E: johanna.may= @th-koeln.de

Technische Hochschule K=C3=B6ln
Campus Deutz
Betzdorfer Str. 2
50679 K=C3=B6ln
Raum: HW2-40

www= .th-koeln.de
--0000000000000c37b405a3934e40--