From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Lawrence Bottorff Subject: Re: "Reference Dump" rant Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 20:30:55 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87efor2w3t.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c0313105d1a98055e884517" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35333) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eHJsQ-0002UO-GA for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 20:31:00 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eHJsO-0005sB-Rh for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 20:30:58 -0500 Received: from mail-ot0-x234.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::234]:43463) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eHJsO-0005rq-K9 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 20:30:56 -0500 Received: by mail-ot0-x234.google.com with SMTP id 105so12250372oth.10 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 17:30:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87efor2w3t.fsf@gmail.com> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" To: Tim Cross Cc: emacs-orgmode Mailinglist --94eb2c0313105d1a98055e884517 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So yes, the complainer (that's me) shouldn't just complain, he should become the improver. Yes, let me see what I can come up with. On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 3:52 PM, Tim Cross wrote: > Hi Lawrence, > > glad you like org-mode. I also think it is a great tool. > > One of the great things about org-mode is that it is used by a very wide > range of people. I know of a couple of people who are not at all > technical who use org-mode just for general organisation and writing. It > certainly isn't something just for the 'Sheldons'. > > If you believe there are some areas of the org documentation which needs > to be improved or augmented, I would strongly encourage you to > contribute. One of the bigger challenges faced by community efforts like > org-mode is documentation. Often, those who write and develop the > solution are too close to it to write clear and comprehensive > documentation. It needs contributions from users like yourself who don't > have the low level knowledge which can blind you to higher level > usability issues. As you will see from this list, documentation fixes > and contributions are not uncommon and are certainly welcomed - in fact, > that is one of the nice things about org-mode, the extent to which > community contributions are accepted. > > regards, > > Tim > > Lawrence Bottorff writes: > > > As many might gather from seeing so many of my beginner posts, I'm not > > exactly a Sheldon Cooper type, i.e., someone who has the A-ha! angel > > standing by 24/7 with her hand on his shoulder. So today I thought I'd > > upgrade my knowledge of org-mode tables. So I go to the section of the > > "manual" on tables. Experimenting on the commands, I get this fairly > > quickly: > > > > | p | q | p implies q | > > |---+---+---------------| > > | T | T | T | > > | T | F | F | > > | F | T | T | > > | F | F | T | > > > > which looks perfect in my buffer, but not so good on an HTML export, > i.e., > > the third column values seem too crowded to the left. Hence, how does o= ne > > justify that last column to be center? Googling, I kept being directed = to > > this > > html#Column-width-and-alignment> > > page, > > which supposedly tells me how. Long story short, the A-ha! angel smiled= , > > and in the end I guessed that I'm supposed to do this: > > > > | p | q | p implies q | > > |---+---+---------------| > > | T | T | T | > > | T | F | F | > > | F | T | T | > > | F | F | T | > > | | | | > > > > which does in fact move the third column contents to the center -- on > > export only. But that's not the norm for me, mainly because the > explanation > > has no example. Sure, it said, *To set the width of a column, one field > > anywhere in the column may contain just the string =E2=80=98=E2=80= =99 where =E2=80=98N=E2=80=99 is an > > integer specifying the width of the column in characters. *But it's > really > > not so obvious that you create an extra dummy row and stick in it -= - > at > > least not to me. > > > > I know from math courses that a text passage can be terribly opaque -- > *until > > you get it -- *then it seemed obvious. However, I can see any beginner > with > > org-mode getting frustrated often with the Manual. And of course I can > site > > many similar examples where only the Sheldon types would get it. > > > > I guess I'm saying it would be nice to have a big omnibus O'Reilly-styl= e > > tutorial on how to use org-mode. I've hung with org-mode because I thin= k > > it's great and, IMHO, should become a standard tool in all > > STEM/STEM-education settings. Think of all those high schools (and even > > colleges) forcing students to use "graphic calculators." What a waste! > > > > LB > > > -- > Tim Cross > --94eb2c0313105d1a98055e884517 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
So yes, the complainer (that's me) shouldn't just = complain, he should become the improver. Yes, let me see what I can come up= with.

On Tu= e, Nov 21, 2017 at 3:52 PM, Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Lawrence,

glad you like org-mode. I also think it is a great tool.

One of the great things about org-mode is that it is used by a very wide range of people. I know of a couple of people who are not at all
technical who use org-mode just for general organisation and writing. It certainly isn't something just for the 'Sheldons'.

If you believe there are some areas of the org documentation which needs to be improved or augmented, I would strongly encourage you to
contribute. One of the bigger challenges faced by community efforts like org-mode is documentation. Often, those who write and develop the
solution are too close to it to write clear and comprehensive
documentation. It needs contributions from users like yourself who don'= t
have the low level knowledge which can blind you to higher level
usability issues. As you will see from this list, documentation fixes
and contributions are not uncommon and are certainly welcomed - in fact, that is one of the nice things about org-mode, the extent to which
community contributions are accepted.

regards,

Tim

Lawrence Bottorff <borgauf@gmail.co= m> writes:

> As many might gather from seeing so many of my beginner posts, I'm= not
> exactly a Sheldon Cooper type, i.e., someone who has the A-ha! angel > standing by 24/7 with her hand on his shoulder. So today I thought I&#= 39;d
> upgrade my knowledge of org-mode tables. So I go to the section of the=
> "manual" on tables. Experimenting on the commands, I get thi= s fairly
> quickly:
>
> | p | q | p implies q |
> |---+---+---------------|
> | T | T | T=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | > | T | F | F=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | > | F | T | T=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | > | F | F | T=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | >
> which looks perfect in my buffer, but not so good on an HTML export, i= .e.,
> the third column values seem too crowded to the left. Hence, how does = one
> justify that last column to be center? Googling, I kept being directed= to
> this
> <= http://orgmode.org/manual/Column-width-and-alignment.html#Column-= width-and-alignment>
> page,
> which supposedly tells me how. Long story short, the A-ha! angel smile= d,
> and in the end I guessed that I'm supposed to do this:
>
> | p | q | p implies q |
> |---+---+---------------|
> | T | T | T=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | > | T | F | F=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | > | F | T | T=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | > | F | F | T=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | > |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 |<c>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |
>
> which does in fact move the third column contents to the center -- on<= br> > export only. But that's not the norm for me, mainly because the ex= planation
> has no example. Sure, it said, *To set the width of a column, o= ne field
> anywhere in the column may contain just the string = =E2=80=98<N>=E2=80=99 where =E2=80=98N=E2=80=99 is an
> integer specifying the width of the column in characters. *But = it's really
> not so obvious that you create an extra dummy row and= stick <c> in it -- at
> least not to me.
>
> I know from math courses that a text passage can be terribly op= aque -- *until
> you get it -- *then it seemed obvious. However, I can see any beginner= with
> org-mode getting frustrated of= ten with the Manual. And of course I can site
> many similar examples where only the Sheldon types would get it.
>
> I guess I'm saying it would be nice to have a big omnibus O'Re= illy-style
> tutorial on how to use org-mode. I've hung with org-mode because I= think
> it's great and, IMHO, should become a standard tool in all
> STEM/STEM-education settings. Think of all those high schools (and eve= n
> colleges) forcing students to use "graphic calculators." Wha= t a waste!
>
> LB


--
Tim Cross

--94eb2c0313105d1a98055e884517--