From: "Bruce D'Arcus" <bdarcus@gmail.com>
To: Org Mode List <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
Cc: Tom Gillespie <tgbugs@gmail.com>, John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Expanding how the new cite syntax is used to include cross-references - thoughts?
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2021 09:30:26 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAF-FPGNEwpsecnPoTsq4UCz_uZJA41ngZ6x31w4_D-xc57Rtog@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87sfzdv083.fsf@ucl.ac.uk>
Can we go back to this question of whether internal links are adequate
for cross-references, and if not, what's missing?
On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 11:22 AM Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> Hello John & co.,
>
> I need to chime in when it comes to the UI:
>
> On Thursday, 12 Aug 2021 at 13:19, John Kitchin wrote:
> > I would say the UI that I like, have used for many years, and is the
> > default of org-ref is:
> >
> > 1. You type C-c ] to insert a citation
> > 2. You type C-u C-c ] to insert a cross-reference
> > 3. you type C-u C-u C-c ] to insert a new label.
>
> UI is a very personal thing. So long as there are 3 different functions
> that implement these actions, I would be happy...
[snip]
> In terms of the bigger picture, citations and cross-references, to me,
> are different things (one is external and the other usually internal,
> respectively) and I see no benefit in conflating them. I am also still
> not convinced that org links are not sufficient ...
In reviewing and playing with this functionality a bit, it's clear to
me that internal links are intended to be cross-references, even if
they fall short for certain classes of users.
Let's take a simple example of a figure, adapted from the manual:
#+begin_example
#+CAPTION: This is the caption.
#+NAME: fig:SED-HR4049
[[./img/a.jpg]]
Here's a cross-reference to Figure [[fig:SED-HR4049]].
#+end_example
This internal link seems to produce consistent and correct output
across latex, html, and odt.
The "fig" prefix is meaningful to ref in latex to enable it to type
that cross-reference. I'm unsure how typing in the odt context works,
but it does.
The only downside is one has to manually, per the example, insert the
prefix (here "Figure ") in text (though this is a small price to pay
in my view).
If one wants to use cleveref or autoref instead, as is now possible
with a recent commit, those packages handle that automatically. But of
course, this only works in latex, so you lose the consistency across
the backends.
Also, you then need to be able to specify different variants locally
(for example, cref vs Cref), which is not possible currently.
So I'm unclear: is that added functionality and complexity really
needed? Is there something else I'm missing?
A separate, possibly more important (?), matter is UI and supporting
functionality.
I think it would be nice to have better UI support for inserting these
references.
To John's point, could we add interactive functions to insert labels
and cross-references (say as customizable functions?), using the
existing internal link support, and iterate that support over time?
Bruce
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-10-10 13:32 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 22+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-08-11 0:58 Expanding how the new cite syntax is used to include cross-references - thoughts? John Kitchin
2021-08-11 1:19 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-08-11 5:28 ` Tom Gillespie
2021-08-11 11:13 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-08-11 11:54 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-08-11 13:43 ` John Kitchin
2021-08-11 14:32 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-08-11 14:56 ` John Kitchin
2021-08-11 15:41 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-08-11 16:08 ` Timothy
2021-08-11 16:26 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-08-11 14:13 ` John Kitchin
2021-08-12 15:23 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-08-12 17:19 ` John Kitchin
2021-08-12 18:06 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-08-13 15:22 ` Eric S Fraga
2021-10-10 13:30 ` Bruce D'Arcus [this message]
2021-10-12 21:16 ` John Kitchin
2021-10-12 21:58 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-10-12 23:27 ` John Kitchin
2021-10-13 0:08 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-08-11 13:23 ` John Kitchin
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
List information: https://www.orgmode.org/
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=CAF-FPGNEwpsecnPoTsq4UCz_uZJA41ngZ6x31w4_D-xc57Rtog@mail.gmail.com \
--to=bdarcus@gmail.com \
--cc=emacs-orgmode@gnu.org \
--cc=jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu \
--cc=tgbugs@gmail.com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).