From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id AMkiFBjCn2DnEwAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 15 May 2021 14:44:08 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id 2C68DxjCn2AYLwAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 15 May 2021 12:44:08 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B9D972477D for ; Sat, 15 May 2021 14:44:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:44972 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lhteI-0000mw-Rq for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 15 May 2021 08:44:06 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60002) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lhtdq-0000mg-07 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 15 May 2021 08:43:38 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-x436.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::436]:45931) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lhtdo-0004X0-HO for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 15 May 2021 08:43:37 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-x436.google.com with SMTP id h4so1733223wrt.12 for ; Sat, 15 May 2021 05:43:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=/WPim6JxaKeTlsLTwSUA8Ly6QByMPyaOnmMktNzGYp0=; b=RaoQ2ChOHGXgXM9mfJmeL/G/yoDVRGfwREY+5pA6p0KbZDbocmZbzEzVv1CGr2MMjM tHpfp0UAh0LIXo9brcoYM9yU/YD2XxlnCISLQczx+b7+nYvtxXzyqij4Jkf7mcXtbwRP 4L+VcuU4oKJAi1uqpfBeWYiEytb//iNn7OphpV+TEF8qiNmjlv9M90Vf/24lBQn0zmuI F08Pu2+a2OW/cZ0fdV4Bq6io0gAmz9nea0UX3GCUXyZpH34JKorsRj4SbGyQ6Fn26nu2 JtjHIIE37URs2Z03cz0xeib9JWMMHjbLOgNZbzaOLVZvt3UpXJ/F8YjamAED0IcztMSg g0hA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=/WPim6JxaKeTlsLTwSUA8Ly6QByMPyaOnmMktNzGYp0=; b=UwIkd61MR9Hnz/DEYnW+pXcXvznxwYhbShtHIFVUzjfgf4mw1WTVm+9cfTm2rWwL6O gsVMTuGTRW3UcSxUS8aDP+Tz4FPldTr6NPS8sAxRhM/+QdAd98MJHr5Dmgq0SnjBz+8w KuMWvPT1IBS7c6RzK1vGxxfSjftdalZMGzVltwT7a6VC0PtcjgFgf+G0qk++XIjK/NtA 8aeJHZ7D1qTIQG4EPhwWlB62UV4IAy960wDn9diWcr6i0JsoQ8JQgeycf0xTQpo2a+ih 7E1xh7ZGpFK9w5IiEyThYYLwXNQjHskYOjv1XH8+UIQ+EitweFOWmJrfbv4GlMr6K+bX JyCA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531SjsPxM6yaWwZRv2pqLVPXRzzmtUaxfZs6sPkPYVWjJdkAkV6+ maGi6jsqDPbH3uBdaymL6nBFC/Suo3YEr6FSi3XNQJ27yN0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw+HxpPfZDqY1v7fRh2bz7jMWMbGipP+T6Sry4+PGt+hzScdOXUIiG4Dl7m2ApDMyhaptG07JJ7UVc1GgdXiUQ= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4291:: with SMTP id k17mr62086734wrq.423.1621082614575; Sat, 15 May 2021 05:43:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <871raawc7j.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <4dd47d8d-5dd8-4769-7e2f-eb3438ba0b4a@mailbox.org> <87sg2orz0z.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> In-Reply-To: From: "Bruce D'Arcus" Date: Sat, 15 May 2021 08:43:01 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations To: Org Mode List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::436; envelope-from=bdarcus@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x436.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1621082647; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=/WPim6JxaKeTlsLTwSUA8Ly6QByMPyaOnmMktNzGYp0=; b=ht8+B4szEor/wKJtWgH9J/e+uYobtMrw7saOUBv+mL3RFa/A8WX5jcKnXbd+vm2xTfHPpo N+oXp6kGJms8ty2kOEyufadTLGEEnvs7n7JpdMacly9B7cLmp0AQx2TiVN95mBA5y8p9GX xRCNyF1cw64m2qObl+pT5tF0EGz2PRc0/uXPglERHQrr2QlrBBHPgp5v94ow9edT5vkQoA D0sVj3MHHx8VYzn7HPqNj0WtEgoiNK52YnyFh6Bhlu5JHxeN0TTMtrLgD+BSbJZhbKbe+y nZrUjXLATPshC4clBMWeF3Fuv4/txnn+3qcLqyiEBW5riS13SpRkLA0bm9yzmg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1621082647; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=TtHF15hPo0sXCYlsCLmiP0hnVE+fTN2hx7aEDCTnvGxBX04YM6Ox+2S6P9Zgdj/L+CBrYU 80nFnKgYmAOkSi77m0yBW+YRV8DamIOrTgLoqsUsoK3X12q9qQjFVBlIcrIfFMDLBxeagJ gw5asCSURovRjPWYYCjfDW3hcXogl88JceZVNCPfQ50zMe53cBNVu4VtUON5gOrOTy1+Fa LXUFYEt3/IUFdZ8+n/D7Zzkr9qjlqZqhaXh5ummv3NT8FmZ5Mizg7WsBO20k1MDzbNcIXD +pFsqnwdE/JBTNU+8k9czT7LRGBiOcuAhBNqxmtI3nOy8CWzwvZriA0LdwqR+w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=RaoQ2ChO; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.15 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=RaoQ2ChO; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: B9D972477D X-Spam-Score: -3.15 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 8OMqhHfL8byM On Sat, May 15, 2021 at 8:03 AM Bruce D'Arcus wrote: > > On Sat, May 15, 2021 at 7:56 AM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: ... > > In any case, this explains why the docstring has a bias. I updated it to > > insist on the fact that these are rules for author-year to note > > conversion. > > FWIW, I agree with this decision. > > High level, the basic logic says to a user if you need to cite > something, insert a citation, and let your citation processor take > care of the rest. > > Whether that final output is a number, a footnote mark, or an > author-date representation, it should "just work." To make explicit what is implicit above: What I'm saying is it's not actually an author-date bias, even if the examples we've discussed have focused on that. Rather, this functionality allows an export processor to handle automatic footnoting of in-text, as opposed to in-note, citations, regardless of what the initial output expectation for those citations are. I don't know how to elegantly express this for the docstring, but just wanted to clarify. Bruce