From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id yJJHMCs9FWEsAgEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2021 17:24:27 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id 0DAALCs9FWFtKAAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2021 15:24:27 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A4E02E43B for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2021 17:24:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:42342 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mECZF-0002Gj-1Z for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 12 Aug 2021 11:24:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38326) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mECYR-0002G7-4W for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 12 Aug 2021 11:23:37 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-x32c.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::32c]:37775) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mECYP-0002qF-Fl for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 12 Aug 2021 11:23:34 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-x32c.google.com with SMTP id l34-20020a05600c1d22b02902573c214807so7434523wms.2 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2021 08:23:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=/AFMPKwiuiQpkK5+Ozyhxw7MgZqK0CjeCInx8eDZGcE=; b=B/eVKshvhxCQHeqhjn7J7mjU2wzNK6TzS4n/VREsmHJQ8qLyJl5q7JXlRvX/rg0z9D QvbdcUBrgxy/dUzLJBbfcnFI4tjhpjZkDNANyCjqq+Xa3gXLDHZ3BoevQsqZOgD6QVGs DWSAQwXRSqbHou59RmwXx6/Azhq56TQk+nLTdBU05o6LA2x7SwOxGyrCzJ6Jr2SiLnuh KA++DwwzM3ekkX8p264jgqePehuV+sRZTlb6Rtv/50SkOnGzFWlCAyTbl8rb7qs0ZcLY L81DkZCWNS5HMAokif2VXtHWTTepNzBIKT/DGW0QSK5xzSyCOUeTOD4T8eVRi+9eqFAk KJzQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=/AFMPKwiuiQpkK5+Ozyhxw7MgZqK0CjeCInx8eDZGcE=; b=G9Kezb2w/jPsatdCd8GkuvXjbAouajvuELUJT1RVOc7V+VRK8rj00nuV/OsBrK2eDJ SZDN8Gj0erulgp2nSRcU1bX9GSBLvoWNOtEqyTCH8Z9GOwTZLtXqHTFXBm2afILD3op2 ZZGm+lnPF3kMtRYSNzxdrZUb2LTsbilmVwQMkx0dHhV04Ekb1+krnLTWPtswAFzQqkNt 6a/nxfhe0jZjkUiC7jFfPqXPgdo9nr+wYIh4t7yYBHqZZImnl0Tks4RVSclhNayJ8+qA SziTltIIvyYeI1H9O1X3G3lA+c6EWvfFzNYRHPrejMX2X2bzVnD7jHwzwc9BuxVGotAG uXwA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533lfBJCCuucsLpsc7TSnun0V1X+tmKxv/xxn6/cNrM/E98eTeIQ WEyU9VX3DFSxFfJrQqkkz35QmrRvAX2vavjyW5M= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxtt91WbSJjJnCN5IqxlnDWeXIKCjxJclmxnl1JmEilH5k7nVCuSCdzzmuhBnIIaW6tVtoHYsM0ZnMvYC63aLg= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:c918:: with SMTP id f24mr4605014wmb.92.1628781810927; Thu, 12 Aug 2021 08:23:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: "Bruce D'Arcus" Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 11:23:10 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Expanding how the new cite syntax is used to include cross-references - thoughts? To: John Kitchin Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::32c; envelope-from=bdarcus@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x32c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Tom Gillespie , org-mode-email Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1628781867; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=/AFMPKwiuiQpkK5+Ozyhxw7MgZqK0CjeCInx8eDZGcE=; b=tgTxF9N8QybFgp9G6yMieVYVzTRd5zsa+HIVY2cxMNbgLNFw6mC6LPmk8+emBQ7nywgqhW NocbQ6r8TeSyHo/HLsTmM17LHLgiUl83IJdmtoY9YL6cY2OWRja6Lku6J1JpRLPJsyZOk2 MWX95jb1zo7iP/HyPZx5vs0UA/rFwIU8tjRL17m+KkUtCH8Nc/usB5QQ5D+T/x51sNafI4 Ec+07L8C0WNNoXdnCBQVk9ExLxh1oAvfrAps74gvqC0YT6oqhlwgURT0QOH/kDzRk/eXND kPIwVBVe/6Tv8QYJipO4tdbzPsIK4+37ovgWkY+ks0ROkHJ1jO4dumfg2FMLIw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1628781867; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=P/usyDcCUccBiYlbfdPW6aJ3Mkgr/1vSrGHtHsW8yfA6bosicDi1LeaLNNXeoqWFPXXxSf fpK0OFexa8kRfYWyfXmEkqSIZIDQPLA9P1AODljRW0E7qt22hBlEys7ultsh8u7xFsfFhx +eszWqNuIzXqW1UDIwBmrKgaBefdmNRqZUWVcriThb/mzxKdLlkh+MQMwFRgI8ajtSzNwG iociI2+Tb99LmUz4LuSOAPc2tJPqTSCsMV35AiZtrl+HHTo3Mvy0c6Vo7sm48d26kFGPbG G2fMmN3ed2AsNiVHHMayN5/K3YhFc4fzYROUAZDKr5omeNwohNOwkpmqyto+MQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b="B/eVKshv"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.11 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b="B/eVKshv"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 2A4E02E43B X-Spam-Score: -2.11 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: PTqQtCPVq0XP On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 1:31 PM John Kitchin wrote: ... > > It's just there needs to be some way to distinguish among types of > > targets, I think. > > At the risk of repeating myself, I don't think this is true. Just to clarify ...yes, I agree with you; I wrote that before the subsequent back-and-forth yesterday. So no need to repeat: we are now in closer agreement than we were before the discussion :-) > As I have thought about this more, the line between citations and > cross-references has blurred. In org-ref, they were handled the same > way, with org-links (although each link had its own export function). > For both cites and refs, the links are just pointers, and in both cases > it is possible for them to point to things within the same document. > Even in LaTeX, when we submit a manuscript, the citation references are > embedded in a standalone tex file, so every link is to an internal > location. Let's step back though: What is the ideal UX for org users? Per my response to Timothy yesterday, and what I have said elsewhere about how citations and cross-references are handled elsewhere in the software universe, I think it's not to remove the distinction, but rather to clarify it. In effect, the choice is between: 1. org-cite-insert for both citations and cross-refernces 2. org-cite-insert for the former, org-ref-insert for the latter Even in org-ref, you adopted 2.; there's a separate command and menu entry for each, and a different UI. Do you now think that was a bad decision in retrospect? Bruce