From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: "Alan E. Davis" Subject: Re: Org Tutorials need more structure Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 11:06:26 -0700 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1135f79cb2bf4b04e7c5eeb6 Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40666) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VRQoz-0005hb-TF for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Oct 2013 14:06:55 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VRQox-0004h6-SD for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Oct 2013 14:06:49 -0400 Received: from mail-la0-x235.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c03::235]:38056) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VRQox-0004gj-9r for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Oct 2013 14:06:47 -0400 Received: by mail-la0-f53.google.com with SMTP id el20so967525lab.40 for ; Wed, 02 Oct 2013 11:06:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Cc: emacs orgmode-mailinglist --001a1135f79cb2bf4b04e7c5eeb6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 To be brief, the tutorials and other parts of the worg webpages could do with some updating. Org-mode has been through a good amount of evolution. One isolated example is the "remember" tutorials. These could, at the least, be marked with a paragraph inset at the top of the file: a statement that this feature has been supplanted by the "Capture" feature, but that the tutorial is still useful for basic usage ideas. IMHO Alan On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 6:10 PM, M wrote: > Hi Carsten & all, > > thanks for this good idea and the resulting discussion here! > > my 2 cents about the tutorials page: > yes, I agree, that especially for absolute beginners (new to Emacs and new > to org-mode) it would be helpful to have a very basic step by step > tutorial. > The list of "General introductions" is very long and quite confusing. > > How I came to using org-mode? > > I am a newby (at least I still feel like one, although I'm working with > Emacs org-mode now for more than 1.5 years), so maybe my experience might > help here. > > I was a GTD user at first using other "GUI oriented" GTD software like > Thinking Rock, iGTD. iGTD had some problems and was not updated any more, > so > I started searching for a new tool and found Charles Cave's GTD tutorials > [1] (nearly 3 years ago, it seems!) and then started using org-mode since > Jan 2012. > I then found Bernt Hansen's excellent site and used his setup [2] for my > first steps with org-mode, but it was very hard to adapt the agendas and > settings to my needs (and I'm still struggling). > Furthermore, Sacha Chua's blog is very interesting and I'm often looking at > the worg tutorials page. > > So my first interest was todo/task/project management, but I quickly became > interested in note-taking, exporting, attachments, dired, bookmarks, > linking, ... > > My problems were (and still are): > a) I am one of those users, which have never been really working with Emacs > before, so at the beginning, it's very hard to understand the concept and > basic commands. > Many tutorials take for granted a lot of knowledge. > > b) I'm using two different OS's (Windows 7 at work and OS X 10.6 at home), > each one has its own problems when setting up advanced features. > It is especially difficult, to set up an efficient workflow to integrate MS > Outlook (Mails/Calendar) and Emacs org-mode... > > c) I'm only an engineer, not a professional programmer. My knowledge about > programming in general and elisp and Emacs configuration is still very > limited, unfortunately. see a) > > [1] http://members.optusnet.com.au/~charles57/GTD/gtd_workflow.html > [2] http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html > > Nevertheless thank you for this great tool and all the work you all put in > maintaining, extending, documenting and helping! > Org-mode changed my way of working and I never was so close to having a > good > and efficient system as I am now with org-mode. (as soon as long as I don't > have to search for the solution of a problem :( ) > > Kind regards > > Martin > > > Carsten Dominik gmail.com> writes: > > > and came away with the feeling that that this page has become > > somewhat useless for people who are really new to Org. > > > > Can we have a discussion here on how this path should look like? > > When you came to Org-mode as a newby, what were the three resources > > that really made an impression on by being accessible and > > providing feel and promise for digging deeper? > > > > > --001a1135f79cb2bf4b04e7c5eeb6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To be brief, the tutorials and other parts of the worg web= pages could do with some updating. =A0 Org-mode has been through a good amo= unt of evolution. =A0

One isolated example is the "= remember" tutorials. =A0These could, at the least, be marked with a pa= ragraph inset at the top of the file: a statement that this feature has bee= n supplanted by the "Capture" feature, but that the tutorial is s= till useful for basic usage ideas.

IMHO

Alan


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 a= t 6:10 PM, M <Elwood151@web.de> wrote:
Hi Carsten & all,

thanks for this good idea and the resulting discussion here!

my 2 cents about the tutorials page:
yes, I agree, that especially for absolute beginners (new to Emacs and new<= br> to org-mode) it would be helpful to have a very basic step by step tutorial= .
The list of "General introductions" is very long and quite confus= ing.

How I came to using org-mode?

I am a newby (at least I still feel like one, although I'm working with=
Emacs org-mode now for more than 1.5 years), so maybe my experience might help here.

I was a GTD user at first using other "GUI oriented" GTD software= like
Thinking Rock, iGTD. iGTD had some problems and was not updated any more, s= o
I started searching for a new tool =A0and found Charles Cave's GTD tuto= rials
[1] (nearly 3 years ago, it seems!) and then started using org-mode since Jan 2012.
I then found Bernt Hansen's excellent site and used his setup [2] for m= y
first steps with org-mode, but it was very hard to adapt the agendas and settings to my needs (and I'm still struggling).
Furthermore, Sacha Chua's blog is very interesting and I'm often lo= oking at
the worg tutorials page.

So my first interest was todo/task/project management, but I quickly became=
interested in note-taking, exporting, attachments, dired, bookmarks,
linking, ...

My problems were (and still are):
a) I am one of those users, which have never been really working with Emacs=
before, so at the beginning, it's very hard to understand the concept a= nd
basic commands.
Many tutorials take for granted a lot of knowledge.

b) I'm using two different OS's (Windows 7 at work and OS X 10.6 at= home),
each one has its own problems when setting up advanced features.
It is especially difficult, to set up an efficient workflow to integrate MS=
Outlook (Mails/Calendar) and Emacs org-mode...

c) I'm only an engineer, not a professional programmer. My knowledge ab= out
programming in general and elisp and Emacs configuration is still very
limited, unfortunately. see a)

[1] http://members.optusnet.com.au/~charles57/GTD/gtd_wo= rkflow.html
[2] http:/= /doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html

Nevertheless thank you for this great tool and all the work you all put in<= br> maintaining, extending, documenting and helping!
Org-mode changed my way of working and I never was so close to having a goo= d
and efficient system as I am now with org-mode. (as soon as long as I don&#= 39;t
have to search for the solution of a problem :( )

Kind regards

Martin


Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik <at> gmail.com> writes:

> and came away with the feeling that that this page has become
> somewhat useless for people who are really new to Org.
>
> Can we have a discussion= here on how this path should look like?
> When you came to Org-mode as a newby, what were the three resources > that really made an impression on by being accessible and
> providing feel and promise for digging deeper?





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