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* Org for non-users, part 2: `C-c C-e', a.k.a. `org-export-dispatch'
@ 2021-12-29 19:35 Eduardo Ochs
  2022-02-07 14:00 ` Ihor Radchenko
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread
From: Eduardo Ochs @ 2021-12-29 19:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Org Mode

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Hi all,

a few weeks ago I recorded a video called "Org for non-users" -
link:

  http://angg.twu.net/2021-org-for-non-users.html

that was about a way to understand some of the data structures that
are used in the support for code blocks. Now I would like to do
something similar with the exporter, but I am stuck at the first
step... When I run `M-x org-export-dispatch' or `C-c C-e' it creates a
second window whose mode line says "*Org Export Dispatcher*" -

My first question is:

  What are the recommended ways to abort org-export-dispatch without
  letting it destroy the "*Org Export Dispatcher*" window and its
  buffer?

I will probably get stuck at other points later, but I think that I'll
be able to get quite far by myself if I can inspect that buffer with
the tools that I know.

All suggestions are welcome, including suggestions related to
questions that you guess that I will have later. =)

  Thanks in advance!
    Eduardo Ochs
    http://angg.twu.net/#eev
    http://angg.twu.net/emacsconf2021.html

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

* Re: Org for non-users, part 2: `C-c C-e', a.k.a. `org-export-dispatch'
  2021-12-29 19:35 Org for non-users, part 2: `C-c C-e', a.k.a. `org-export-dispatch' Eduardo Ochs
@ 2022-02-07 14:00 ` Ihor Radchenko
  2022-02-07 19:27   ` Eduardo Ochs
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread
From: Ihor Radchenko @ 2022-02-07 14:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eduardo Ochs; +Cc: Org Mode

Eduardo Ochs <eduardoochs@gmail.com> writes:

> a few weeks ago I recorded a video called "Org for non-users" -
> link:
>
>   http://angg.twu.net/2021-org-for-non-users.html

Also, feel free to read commentary inside source code. There are a
number of common concepts described in the top comments in the core Org
files, including org-element.el.

> that was about a way to understand some of the data structures that
> are used in the support for code blocks. Now I would like to do
> something similar with the exporter, but I am stuck at the first
> step... When I run `M-x org-export-dispatch' or `C-c C-e' it creates a
> second window whose mode line says "*Org Export Dispatcher*" -
>
> My first question is:
>
>   What are the recommended ways to abort org-export-dispatch without
>   letting it destroy the "*Org Export Dispatcher*" window and its
>   buffer?

You cannot. That window acts similarly to transient, but simpler. You
can think of *Org Export Disipatcher* as an extended help for
read-char-exclusive.

Best,
Ihor


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

* Re: Org for non-users, part 2: `C-c C-e', a.k.a. `org-export-dispatch'
  2022-02-07 14:00 ` Ihor Radchenko
@ 2022-02-07 19:27   ` Eduardo Ochs
  2022-02-08 13:40     ` Ihor Radchenko
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread
From: Eduardo Ochs @ 2022-02-07 19:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ihor Radchenko; +Cc: Org Mode

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On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 at 10:55, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> wrote:

> >   What are the recommended ways to abort org-export-dispatch without
> >   letting it destroy the "*Org Export Dispatcher*" window and its
> >   buffer?
>
> You cannot. That window acts similarly to transient, but simpler. You
> can think of *Org Export Disipatcher* as an extended help for
> read-char-exclusive.
>
> Best,
> Ihor
>

 Hi Ihor,

What do you mean by "you cannot"?
I was expecting an answer like this:

  That's difficult to do, but the temporary buffer is generated by the
  function `org-foo-bar'... you can try to make a copy of
  `org-foo-bar' called `org-foo-bar-hacked-version', add your own
  debugging functions to that copy - suggestion: the lines 42 and 99
  are good places for that - and then you can change the function
  `org-plic-ploc', that is called by `org-export-dispatch', to make it
  call `org-foo-bar-hacked-version' instead of `org-foo-bar'...

One possible meaning of "you cannot" is:

  Org is NOT MEANT to be explored in that way, and this "is not meant
  to" is in a very strong sense. The last time that a person gave
  technical information of that kind in the mailing list was 4 or 5
  years ago, and we banished her from the community and excommunicated
  her. Her name shall not be mentioned.

Frustrated cheers =(,
  Eduardo Ochs
  http://angg.twu.net/#eev

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

* Re: Org for non-users, part 2: `C-c C-e', a.k.a. `org-export-dispatch'
  2022-02-07 19:27   ` Eduardo Ochs
@ 2022-02-08 13:40     ` Ihor Radchenko
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Ihor Radchenko @ 2022-02-08 13:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eduardo Ochs; +Cc: Org Mode

Eduardo Ochs <eduardoochs@gmail.com> writes:

> On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 at 10:55, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >   What are the recommended ways to abort org-export-dispatch without
>> >   letting it destroy the "*Org Export Dispatcher*" window and its
>> >   buffer?
>>
>> You cannot. That window acts similarly to transient, but simpler. You
>> can think of *Org Export Disipatcher* as an extended help for
>> read-char-exclusive.
> What do you mean by "you cannot"?

Sorry if I was not clear. I was answering specifically the question you
asking. Elaborating: you cannot abort org-export-dispatch without
letting it destroy the "*Org Export Dispatcher*" buffer. This is because
"*Org Export Dispatcher*" is created inside unwind-protect form like:

(unwind-protect
        <call to org-export--dispatch-ui that creates the buffer and
        reads user input directly intercepting Emacs even loop via
        read-char-exclusive>
(and (get-buffer "*Org Export Dispatcher*")
     (kill-buffer "*Org Export Dispatcher*")))

Any time you abort org-export-dispatch, the unwind-protect is going to
kill the buffer.

> I was expecting an answer like this:
>
>   That's difficult to do, but the temporary buffer is generated by the
>   function `org-foo-bar'... you can try to make a copy of
>   `org-foo-bar' called `org-foo-bar-hacked-version', add your own
>   debugging functions to that copy - suggestion: the lines 42 and 99
>   are good places for that - and then you can change the function
>   `org-plic-ploc', that is called by `org-export-dispatch', to make it
>   call `org-foo-bar-hacked-version' instead of `org-foo-bar'...

If your question is about debugging, feel free to M-x debug-on-entry
org-export--dispatch-action. That will suspend execution of
org-export--dispatch-ui called by org-export-dispatch right after the
buffer is created but before Emacs even loop is blocked to read user
input. Reading the source code of org-export--dispatch-ui might also
help.

> One possible meaning of "you cannot" is:
>
>   Org is NOT MEANT to be explored in that way, and this "is not meant
>   to" is in a very strong sense. The last time that a person gave
>   technical information of that kind in the mailing list was 4 or 5
>   years ago, and we banished her from the community and excommunicated
>   her. Her name shall not be mentioned.

In my reply, "you cannot" referred to you cannot because of technical
reasons, as I tried to explain above. You appear to interpret the
wording in a strongly negative sense. Note that I was not trying to attack
you in any way and I am always trying my best to follow GNU Kind
Communication Guidelines [1] in my emails. Also note that my wording
might not be ideal. Either because English is not my native language or
because I may misinterpret the message I am replying to. 

[1] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/kind-communication.html

Best,
Ihor



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

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-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-12-29 19:35 Org for non-users, part 2: `C-c C-e', a.k.a. `org-export-dispatch' Eduardo Ochs
2022-02-07 14:00 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-02-07 19:27   ` Eduardo Ochs
2022-02-08 13:40     ` Ihor Radchenko

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