From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Marcelo de Moraes Serpa Subject: Re: [OT] Defining System, process, methodology and framework Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 23:59:21 -0500 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cfa34f1537104bd8855c7 Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:56511) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SIYbX-0002fe-Lo for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2012 00:59:29 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SIYbU-0003Qs-Vy for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2012 00:59:27 -0400 Received: from mail-bk0-f41.google.com ([209.85.214.41]:61913) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SIYbU-0003Qg-Hq for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2012 00:59:24 -0400 Received: by bkwq16 with SMTP id q16so2551679bkw.0 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2012 21:59:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Org Mode --0015175cfa34f1537104bd8855c7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Well, looks like my text was kind of stupid and or confusing... Anyway, I started reading "An Introduction To General Systems Thinking" - surprisingly interesting book, and it's helping me answer most of those questions in deeper ways. I needed to do some additional investigation before starting to ask questions ;) I'll share the insights after I finish it, Thanks! Marcelo. On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 9:24 PM, Marcelo de Moraes Serpa < celoserpa@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi guys, > > I know there are quite a few smart brains around here, and I think this is > valid discussion for this mailing list, even if OT. > > I'm not a cientist, nor work inside an academic environment. I'm just a > regular guy trying to understand this world and making better use of my > resources, specially time. For this, I have read dozens of books on > personal productivity, including GTD, Making it All Work, and Work the > System. All great books. > > I've started to notice a pattern though. All of them talk about systems > and processes (and some might even use the word framework and methodology / > or method), and although you can live by and be quite productivity if you > apply the principles, I knew I had to understand in an even lower and basic > level. I then asked myself "What the heck is a system" and what is the > relationship it has with "process", "methodology" and "frameworks" ? > > I found out, for example, that "System" and "Process" sometimes are used > inter-changeably. So I went to google to try to find out the answer. The > simplest answers simply say that "a process is what a system is made of". > It did not convince me. > > By reading the wikipedia article about System ( > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System), I found out this paragraph under > "System concepts": > > Process and transformation process >> A system can also be viewed as a bounded transformation process, that is, >> a process or collection of processes that transforms inputs into outputs. >> Inputs are consumed; outputs are produced. The concept of input and output >> here is very broad. E.g., an output of a passenger ship is the movement of >> people from departure to destination. > > > A system can viewed as a process? Hmm, confusing. > > Right now, my mental model basically says that a "system" is like > blueprint with different components that communicate, and a process is what > runs on it (or in on of its components). "Framework" is like a collection > of systems and a "methodology" is basically akin to system (in my > understanding). > > Why am I obsessing about this? > > The reason is systems thinking. I think it's a quite interesting mindset > and way to perceive the world. By trying to view yourself and what > surrounds you as systems (with sub-systems), it's much easier to document > (them), get feedback, and improve, automating your life even further, > understanding it more, and living better. > > For example, from this perspective I think, GTD is simply a product of an > elevated point of view from the author David Allen. He simply viewed things > systematically and documented them. That's why he says it's 'common-sense'. > > But before that, it would be nice to know exactly what a System is, and > it's relationship with "process", "methodology" and "framework", in > abstract terms. > > What do you think? I'm sure there are quite a few people here that might > be crazy enough to have the same question, or perhaps, I'm just too crazy. > Let me know, any insights very much appreciated. > > Cheers, > > - Marcelo. > > --0015175cfa34f1537104bd8855c7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, looks like my text was kind of stupid and or confusing...=A0

=
Anyway, I started reading "An Introduction To General Systems Thi= nking" - surprisingly interesting book, and it's helping me answer= most of those questions in deeper ways. I needed to do some=A0additional= =A0investigation before starting to ask questions ;)

I'll share the insights after I finish it,

Thanks!

Marcelo.

On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 9:24 PM, Marcelo de Moraes Serpa = <celoserpa@gmai= l.com> wrote:
Hi guys,

I know there are= quite a few smart brains around here, and I think this is valid discussion= for this mailing list, even if OT.

I'm not a cientist, nor work inside an academic env= ironment. I'm just a regular guy trying to understand this world and ma= king better use of my resources, specially time. For this, I have read doze= ns of books on personal productivity, including GTD, Making it All Work, an= d Work the System. All great books.=A0

I've started to notice a pattern though. All of the= m talk about systems and processes (and some might even use the word framew= ork and methodology / or method), and although you can live by and be quite= productivity if you apply the principles, I knew I had to understand in an= even lower and basic level. I then asked myself "What the heck is a s= ystem" and what is the relationship it has with "process", &= quot;methodology" and "frameworks" ?

I found out, for example, that "System" and &= quot;Process" sometimes are used inter-changeably. So I went to google= to try to find out the answer. The simplest answers simply say that "= a process is what a system is made of". It did not convince me.

By reading the wikipedia article about System (http://en.wikipe= dia.org/wiki/System), I found out this paragraph under "System con= cepts":

Process and transformation process
A system can also be viewed as a boun= ded transformation process, that is, a process or collection of processes t= hat transforms inputs into outputs. Inputs are consumed; outputs are produc= ed. The concept of input and output here is very broad. E.g., an output of = a passenger ship is the movement of people from departure to destination.

A system can viewed as a process? Hmm, confusing.=

Right now, my mental model basically says that a = "system" is like blueprint with different components that=A0commu= nicate, and a process is what runs on it (or in on of its components). &quo= t;Framework" is like a collection of systems and a "methodology&q= uot; is basically akin to system (in my understanding).

Why am I obsessing about this?

The reason is systems thinking. I think it's a quite interesting minds= et and way to perceive the world. By trying to view yourself and what surro= unds you as systems (with sub-systems), it's much easier to document (t= hem), get feedback, and improve, automating your life even further, underst= anding it more, and living better.

For example, from this perspective I think, GTD is simp= ly a product of an elevated point of view from the author David Allen. He s= imply viewed things systematically and documented them. That's why he s= ays it's 'common-sense'.

But before that, it would be nice to know exactly what = a System is, and it's relationship with "process", "meth= odology" and "framework", in abstract terms.

=A0What do you think? I'm sure there are quite a few people = here that might be crazy enough to have the same question, or perhaps, I= 9;m just too crazy. Let me know, any insights very much appreciated.

Cheers,

- Marcelo.
<= div>

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