From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Marcelo de Moraes Serpa Subject: [OT] Defining System, process, methodology and framework Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 21:24:54 -0500 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0ce0dafce0a8b504bd5df1af Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:54606) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SHnEy-0003aZ-3y for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2012 22:25:01 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SHnEv-00076K-Hi for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2012 22:24:59 -0400 Received: from mail-bk0-f41.google.com ([209.85.214.41]:54255) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SHnEv-00075L-3d for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2012 22:24:57 -0400 Received: by bkwq16 with SMTP id q16so372854bkw.0 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2012 19:24:54 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Org Mode --000e0ce0dafce0a8b504bd5df1af Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi guys, I know there are quite a few smart brains around here, and I think this is valid discussion for this mailing list, even if OT. I'm not a cientist, nor work inside an academic environment. I'm just a regular guy trying to understand this world and making better use of my resources, specially time. For this, I have read dozens of books on personal productivity, including GTD, Making it All Work, and Work the System. All great books. I've started to notice a pattern though. All of them talk about systems and processes (and some might even use the word framework and methodology / or method), and although you can live by and be quite productivity if you apply the principles, I knew I had to understand in an even lower and basic level. I then asked myself "What the heck is a system" and what is the relationship it has with "process", "methodology" and "frameworks" ? I found out, for example, that "System" and "Process" sometimes are used inter-changeably. So I went to google to try to find out the answer. The simplest answers simply say that "a process is what a system is made of". It did not convince me. By reading the wikipedia article about System ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System), I found out this paragraph under "System concepts": Process and transformation process > A system can also be viewed as a bounded transformation process, that is, > a process or collection of processes that transforms inputs into outputs. > Inputs are consumed; outputs are produced. The concept of input and output > here is very broad. E.g., an output of a passenger ship is the movement of > people from departure to destination. A system can viewed as a process? Hmm, confusing. Right now, my mental model basically says that a "system" is like blueprint with different components that communicate, and a process is what runs on it (or in on of its components). "Framework" is like a collection of systems and a "methodology" is basically akin to system (in my understanding). Why am I obsessing about this? The reason is systems thinking. I think it's a quite interesting mindset and way to perceive the world. By trying to view yourself and what surrounds you as systems (with sub-systems), it's much easier to document (them), get feedback, and improve, automating your life even further, understanding it more, and living better. For example, from this perspective I think, GTD is simply a product of an elevated point of view from the author David Allen. He simply viewed things systematically and documented them. That's why he says it's 'common-sense'. But before that, it would be nice to know exactly what a System is, and it's relationship with "process", "methodology" and "framework", in abstract terms. What do you think? I'm sure there are quite a few people here that might be crazy enough to have the same question, or perhaps, I'm just too crazy. Let me know, any insights very much appreciated. Cheers, - Marcelo. --000e0ce0dafce0a8b504bd5df1af Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi guys,

I know there are quite a few smart brains aroun= d here, and I think this is valid discussion for this mailing list, even if= OT.

I'm not a cientist, nor work inside an ac= ademic environment. I'm just a regular guy trying to understand this wo= rld and making better use of my resources, specially time. For this, I have= read dozens of books on personal productivity, including GTD, Making it Al= l Work, and Work the System. All great books.=A0

I've started to notice a pattern though. All of the= m talk about systems and processes (and some might even use the word framew= ork and methodology / or method), and although you can live by and be quite= productivity if you apply the principles, I knew I had to understand in an= even lower and basic level. I then asked myself "What the heck is a s= ystem" and what is the relationship it has with "process", &= quot;methodology" and "frameworks" ?

I found out, for example, that "System" and &= quot;Process" sometimes are used inter-changeably. So I went to google= to try to find out the answer. The simplest answers simply say that "= a process is what a system is made of". It did not convince me.

By reading the wikipedia article about System (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syste= m), I found out this paragraph under "System concepts":

Process and transformation process
A system can also be viewed as a boun= ded transformation process, that is, a process or collection of processes t= hat transforms inputs into outputs. Inputs are consumed; outputs are produc= ed. The concept of input and output here is very broad. E.g., an output of = a passenger ship is the movement of people from departure to destination.

A system can viewed as a process? Hmm, confusing.=

Right now, my mental model basically says that a = "system" is like blueprint with different components that=A0commu= nicate, and a process is what runs on it (or in on of its components). &quo= t;Framework" is like a collection of systems and a "methodology&q= uot; is basically akin to system (in my understanding).

Why am I obsessing about this?

The reason is systems thinking. I think it's a quite interesting minds= et and way to perceive the world. By trying to view yourself and what surro= unds you as systems (with sub-systems), it's much easier to document (t= hem), get feedback, and improve, automating your life even further, underst= anding it more, and living better.

For example, from this perspective I think, GTD is simp= ly a product of an elevated point of view from the author David Allen. He s= imply viewed things systematically and documented them. That's why he s= ays it's 'common-sense'.

But before that, it would be nice to know exactly what = a System is, and it's relationship with "process", "meth= odology" and "framework", in abstract terms.

=A0What do you think? I'm sure there are quite a few people = here that might be crazy enough to have the same question, or perhaps, I= 9;m just too crazy. Let me know, any insights very much appreciated.

Cheers,

- Marcelo.
<= div>
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