From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms9.migadu.com with LMTPS id IC19NeHtKmSxGQAASxT56A (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 03 Apr 2023 17:16:49 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id mMhLNeHtKmQHuAAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 03 Apr 2023 17:16:49 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 849DE11D4F for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2023 17:16:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pjLuz-0002ZD-Uk; Mon, 03 Apr 2023 11:16:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pjLuy-0002Z5-Vt for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2023 11:16:25 -0400 Received: from mail-ed1-x532.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::532]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pjLux-00072A-2b for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2023 11:16:24 -0400 Received: by mail-ed1-x532.google.com with SMTP id x3so118651204edb.10 for ; Mon, 03 Apr 2023 08:16:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1680534980; x=1683126980; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=EORIlFrcd37qF+2O4RKiuTogOkDg8wOgMUUFgdeIsyk=; b=WBRuq2J1gl2InUGMNL9zqbQ8yclDviPyFHkVaU5BOe7SW1jjtOPYInQ0eyYjv5KMFR 13hHVQvBRjKdD5IBxdADUcuLHoF4ElO9iiFl/I/F+U2Z5U51mrnVCUJ3E8pYtlK7uld4 GU/k5pmiNTGjQe7NslJevpN4oiqlroq/YZeLrtN82YYcLu65X37O4xnw+XWx62N3l/3a 44FO8TMFInAeEuvlnwjsFHLqr7PUcIHGskITPQi7zh0ZBYqWFRhY/HKBBqwOlvllHfQ+ QHMyJB/n/2IKlEkKizkAvQZAk2LY9+psXfXDRsIDTlriBJThBuZFOr7FiXoAv9U4+f8v ZeRA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1680534980; x=1683126980; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=EORIlFrcd37qF+2O4RKiuTogOkDg8wOgMUUFgdeIsyk=; b=wBYYzWn7hOFw2G0el4IUfqPH825rfLW0WmxIx6AHi7xqAUkVWr45j7GwWf5nfCoQqU yp2Gjz6VQa25HL0AYZd3jV6TYs1EvKY7ozgJgHyzXx2OrY3F+N5pLrE/Jf2uDKX4tIOP Pd7gIEY/PueD92tJ06l4lAONg6Rx6ZPcNNU0/bLP4DGDxrsUHqPOi31b63nlCTpUK/Od k9WuOXGmkLh+SxhUEQuATGTKOmlDpU08SKHrC7J6jVTIYE7h79AQ2bZBr8bonNQsLrS5 BqNDbOa46PZ9fHQ3gRoIGt2TwJLX/3RniUuLNIUOj/GCqbrhy+9s+vJnDh04YD2HN2Dt nSLg== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9ecDOHsu+jwem8q4kl5srABo+pKzOE/KXbrVsI7VTIwoM3PlK+Q o31jnyKcOwqsy87oDhwHfaqeqEbuTJOmCj78xD1baic93Sg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350Ykf4xbfzfj6RH3PStoSqHZNPxN2bv0X3Q9YHrnFsvNTuJV+Fsj116DlcIpC8garHD30FRh4afAA0CbubyGH1s= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:fe4a:b0:93c:dd93:8bf6 with SMTP id wz10-20020a170906fe4a00b0093cdd938bf6mr19832378ejb.9.1680534980226; Mon, 03 Apr 2023 08:16:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87edp1rs25.fsf@allofthis.mail-host-address-is-not-set> In-Reply-To: <87edp1rs25.fsf@allofthis.mail-host-address-is-not-set> From: George Mauer Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2023 10:16:09 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: A dream? To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000087725705f8700a4d" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::532; envelope-from=gmauer@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x532.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: gmauer@gmail.com Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1680535009; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=JjFhtEIwHH8/9MeSXClrR2YS7OBz+9Bg10YZijVPAtGoIzkRslYRKwYpibnwHesicP4j7K a2svAoSvAfSYaQZSuxyqbmYWsxxtgEJtLk2JgpdFwxV3wVoxm/PtAq0PSmIEvoSZozfvji qWF+awXy1Odz63tGasfMeGhzVTVL5lBhCfutq0XbOLN3Dnhqt++/szKHkuctETMtb5+xwO CDpteKlqysU1FLB/lDE3UKMOKLaXiBouIm3UXH7pp48YXd6lUGhGR8X6VRE2pz4ZD37AR1 ojVAdlOIxcVrJyuJGTthLIys52nbqpraec46YZKpBRnDm9pZ0UTvdBue4CqaHQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=WBRuq2J1; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1680535009; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=EORIlFrcd37qF+2O4RKiuTogOkDg8wOgMUUFgdeIsyk=; b=BlK1ZnAwY+VWDzSfQpfjiBZVO/i46EKtCqa/3aSLaxnLpqydIHrv5D7aJZ/QAUzfTQi5XH e/F8sMX/8Bv8pBfUpiWsZ/7w2gyDqgZGZlifaLHyB+C+eP127ir2JeJ3NqBuEXBcDTpx4C mAg55lQ1tMbkVxcixVR0t3FpqmT1hIZXfowsFLYXn77aenQ4NHgpUiJjxkPXPbu8gMDz5s U8/7+KO+gUWTQLEUdqd8x7cwwMJ6UGgbalqq5JlLk0ernV1uD1HZQUmWbvSmjb1zOe2hmA iFBEum44GoFWrKceabIC/ivTA9KeGg5WS/fBBSxgCgnb4q2l2gYd4fZeuJSV+g== X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.46 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=WBRuq2J1; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Spam-Score: -5.46 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 849DE11D4F X-TUID: Hcm/ayh+XZ7X --00000000000087725705f8700a4d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Emacs is a complex tool that itself can take a semester or more to get productive in. I know I myself tried for years to move to it and was only able to after learning vim bindings pretty well, and starting to use Spacemacs. Forcing students to use emacs, much less org - especially in this day and age where students *will* ask online, and *will* get a response of "no one actually uses that" - will probably meet with a ton of resistance. On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 9:03=E2=80=AFAM Marko Schuetz-Schmuck wrote: > Dear All, > > I teach some software engineering courses and in each of them students > work on semester-long projects in teams. So far, have let them choose > their own tools for all the tasks (implementation language, > documentation tools, etc.). Personally, I have been using org-mode for > what feels like forever. I was thinking that it would be nice to have > students use org-mode also for their project. I can see it provide so > many features that would benefit the projects: easy links for > e.g. traceability, tagging of requirements for categorizing, responsible > developer,..., of course todo lists, priorities, progress tracking, > rendering to web page, PDF,... > > Since these are students from a very technical background I would hope > they would be open to this. > > Anyway, does anyone have any experience related to this, maybe not > specifically related to teaching, but software engineering projects > (with documentation of domain, requirements, project approach, progress, > references, source code, testing, design, etc. etc. etc.)? > > Best regards, > > Marko > --00000000000087725705f8700a4d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Emacs is a complex tool that itself can take a semester or= more to get productive in. I know I myself tried for=C2=A0years to move to= it and was only able to after learning vim bindings pretty well, and start= ing to use Spacemacs. Forcing students to use emacs, much less org - especi= ally in this day and age where students *will* ask online, and *will* get a= response of "no one actually uses that" - will probably meet wit= h a ton of resistance.

On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 9:03=E2=80=AFAM Marko Schuetz-= Schmuck <MarkoSchuetz@web.de&= gt; wrote:
Dear = All,

I teach some software engineering courses and in each of them students
work on semester-long projects in teams. So far, have let them choose
their own tools for all the tasks (implementation language,
documentation tools, etc.). Personally, I have been using org-mode for
what feels like forever. I was thinking that it would be nice to have
students use org-mode also for their project. I can see it provide so
many features that would benefit the projects: easy links for
e.g. traceability, tagging of requirements for categorizing, responsible developer,..., of course todo lists, priorities, progress tracking,
rendering to web page, PDF,...

Since these are students from a very technical background I would hope
they would be open to this.

Anyway, does anyone have any experience related to this, maybe not
specifically related to teaching, but software engineering projects
(with documentation of domain, requirements, project approach, progress, references, source code, testing, design, etc. etc. etc.)?

Best regards,

Marko
--00000000000087725705f8700a4d--