From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id qHOjDitgE2FaggAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 11 Aug 2021 07:29:15 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id ILhZCitgE2H8aAAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 11 Aug 2021 05:29:15 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E7E417B56 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 2021 07:29:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:51704 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mDgnf-0003sC-Lf for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 11 Aug 2021 01:29:11 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58162) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mDgnH-0003s3-W4 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 11 Aug 2021 01:28:48 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-x42f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42f]:39495) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mDgnG-0003Cf-Hd for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 11 Aug 2021 01:28:47 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-x42f.google.com with SMTP id b11so1298705wrx.6 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 22:28:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=H2bFfh0D2ykZ/3jRglxrQ7SxqBrcBR0LdNwjCEz04w0=; b=emCTdcz2zQPhNw/qefZIQITlegHtkKI26kebF5UqXW0r3stM8xKgGAvTo4i0uCfRQI 0TmIOnaPgfJxQ8zZg16+eyH9YI+mX+N0wF/RRaeGeI4k73jF+/vOnmIWW4hj1BkcniLI pJUViClBH4lZZgjvT9LmrcPg02mbV9iHfJEUYKN3XhTWCEG51Hg4TLi1flnq7xkaUPgf yG1phbmHaGuHmhTwfYROemfgxVnshG3lztMhZupHGuf7sqNO2zSOB+FeIJWu041bzuxO 1xKZOuTZDyjXTOaPbBP3ZBLL4RbYLhg4w3yesFDPQYhwxHHWQmYfPXNRIq6DRvghtAjR NHdQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=H2bFfh0D2ykZ/3jRglxrQ7SxqBrcBR0LdNwjCEz04w0=; b=gEs+O7XK6V9G4HZz/COc1BiLLsDSyyYl8qTT29vWlIXg9jgWLWv5mH86dANHNWamli 6PPPypz4uDgYoinDqM3Z3HkqPUmFkWEAKaSp7D+CX0wBz/yctbMc9Q4OwADV82KL+yeR KXV9wj3hV6SlIIMUEx1nyJw7zCqWFgNa/kXT2uwuHVimUjMxzO9HXkHJBqrqaYpd9s2B fqGPj7xWrQEpwG8VLv8zrkWfHDBmKd3nQKWIntB+cYyhTN2Ws5bz0BT26iHC/Z9qs0uS yFNtoTS0T+gyQix2zDswKF2pBXAqwPcB36qWKn1MaUMlvWGb0O40Ogh7msGgc6y2lTay 7xqQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53342ePMSZwW4334Pv8cRlA418Cs1PjYAkUtkl8Z1XfRQKR4U+jR qEzeJDOUoANW3tXMu1GRu82WHHKK0emC9lGZZk0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzGw7tmm7WWXJ+RuNoZud56yZGWRVLd6ZPlLgoWuDXBjxToFpop5UwCtk5cfgZecaXoCKh7BzbrPqKqBxY2E5M= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:18cc:: with SMTP id w12mr34199098wrq.96.1628659724780; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 22:28:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Tom Gillespie Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 22:28:33 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Expanding how the new cite syntax is used to include cross-references - thoughts? To: "Bruce D'Arcus" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42f; envelope-from=tgbugs@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: org-mode-email , John Kitchin Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1628659754; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=H2bFfh0D2ykZ/3jRglxrQ7SxqBrcBR0LdNwjCEz04w0=; b=YOQJygB7MzkcasFgjwVT1RjxelSWBWKaSY4oxtGNh/mUFETSZ9cHwbxBu/qPoNJr2KnfIf DZ8usRSDy7eqOfuJ1jxBqPgJeMYBM5bZQUMgaPlNseL3QPMOMRbMX45eJJ69zmjgMeq7yV 9VYXBl6Qe9+AAprv0W0DQcTZ5pyT+0nSDZIO6y4Bny39eC7TinHd2tyqMo84F0cPmLEZCI RNV3ofR9CSkWcTKeI8303Gzj4kL4c7hzLqoAzjjJ7rjhp7AXkbWwJoj7vtbpxu2ZCGK1xf hvN8rUZl758HMg7jQLlUACxawrgxI2V0OycPVEH2458opmEAvwkApp50Mvii9A== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1628659754; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=VGajMnrRQeyR6i6XqBB20BbfRda+aYO4GLIEZg8DfQ3HUMJQesLX2lXQT+9uQhkQGYpfQO ibjw4YMx9ESgOdjCqz/aTPbyWUz8meuiX3V4MtlVCBzPdcSrcPQKsDsOVQiGM1stfNI8Fu 4FIz/CxIHKuJ1R/8kAtjJRTHlIk7s/DqffeMjWqYLkBG8zPy/BU+Zd4WRGHgPX9tCOtIsa +3rnx8EI15ZFEDMtWKF/ZGLLtDwdTupRVsjOg53ObJjFgg2h5ooCoYa4YpH79HMWhGTVcr m3IAJCqVupn7BVbacbzMDf9l0nnnzq1jC41hkyzkFsqeQ8TL2JSQnRCX5NZklg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=emCTdcz2; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.31 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=emCTdcz2; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 6E7E417B56 X-Spam-Score: -0.31 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 0sprJG3g0gO4 In general I like John's suggestion. Org link syntax can be made to do nearly anything because it is possible to bind link actions to arbitrary elisp functions (I have used them to create buttons that run source blocks for some of my non-technical colleagues). The grouping of cross references under org-cite seems reasonable to me, and I would love it if they could handle arbitrary references, e.g. to hypothesis web annotation links or org-capture links. Actually, having written this now, I think that both solutions have their own use cases. Org cite is clearly about providing evidence for, or a scholarly reference for something, and critically it can embed some metadata about that reference in the document as a citation or perhaps as an excerpt (and extension of what org-ref does now when the cursor is over a reference?). Regular links do not provide any way to embed metadata within the document, they are purely pointers. That being said, it seems that there are a number of use cases where org-ref links are simply internal document links that can point to an element with a specific #+name: and no embedded information about the target is needed. However, I think it would be a mistake to use up equation/eq and table/tbl or figure/fig prefixes for references that are internal to org, because it implicitly limits/collides with the #+link: keyword. Best, Tom