From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Carsten Dominik Subject: Re: Re: keys and command name info Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 09:31:09 +0200 Message-ID: References: <4C5086C1.9060000@easy-emacs.de> <20100808222636.GF20223@shi.workgroup> <770A61DC-4063-4A72-95F2-21F4E7DE6E77@gmail.com> <87fwyom8iv.fsf@gmx.net> <20100809101957.GC14007@shi.workgroup> <878w4f4oy4.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> <87tyn337rm.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> <21306250-E2A2-46A7-BFB5-891034F3FA59@gmail.com> <4C659D63.1090003@easy-emacs.de> <86490E4E-6B55-4596-82A9-1BDD1079B1F0@uva.nl> <4C683B07.6090206@easy-emacs.de> <4C6A83E2.9020304@easy-emacs.de> <06DED7B3-E7C1-4389-BAE8-0C319A1DF7FD@uva.nl> <4C6E203B.8020900@easy-emacs.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=37892 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OmM4P-0000Yd-DB for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2010 03:31:22 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OmM4N-0001Gj-BK for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2010 03:31:21 -0400 Received: from pony.ic.uva.nl ([145.18.40.181]:35975) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OmM4N-0001Gd-12 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2010 03:31:19 -0400 In-Reply-To: <4C6E203B.8020900@easy-emacs.de> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andreas_R=F6hler?= Cc: emacs-orgmode Hi Andreas, On Aug 20, 2010, at 8:27 AM, Andreas R=F6hler wrote: > Am 18.08.2010 10:38, schrieb Carsten Dominik: >> Hi Andreas, >> >> this already goes in the right direction. >> >> I have a better definition for the macro, which does now >> push the command name all the way to the right (in PDF output). >> I hated the look of the command name separated by a fixed >> number of spaces - this is a lot better. >> Does anyone know how to do this for HTML and info? >> >> @macro orgcmd{key,command} >> @iftex >> @kindex \key\ >> @findex \command\ >> @item @kbd{\key\} @hskip 0pt plus 1filll @code{\command\} >> @end iftex >> @ifnottex >> @kindex \key\ >> @findex \command\ >> @item @kbd{\key\} @tie{}@tie{}@tie{}@tie{}(@code{\command\}) >> @end ifnottex >> @end macro >> >> Also, since the table is now an @asis table, lines which do not >> have a command name like >> >> @item C-u C-u C-u @key{TAB} >> >> will need an explicit formatting command, like this: >> >> @item @kbd{C-u C-u C-u @key{TAB}} >> >> Alternatively, we could have another macro >> >> @macro orgkey{key} >> @item @kbd{\key\} >> @end macro >> >> so that we could write keys for which we have no command name >> like this: >> >> @orgkey{C-u C-u C-u @key{TAB}} >> >> Hope this gets you on your way with a tideous task.... > > Hmm, > > I'm afraid this starts walking the desert. > May be it helps keeping things apart for the beginning. > > 1) Introducing the command names > 2) Completing the formatting > > As views are different concerning the latter, thats a rather hard =20 > task for me, as I can't see the progress... > > For me it's important seeing command names somewhere near its keys. > If beneath or at the right, doesn't matter that much IMHO. I am not sure what the problem is. For keys where you have a command name, you continue as you have been =20= doing. For keys where you do not have the command names, just enclose the key =20= after the @item into @kbd{...} This should get you very far. I am not sure if I have the most recent patch - can you please send it again, so that I can check it? Thanks. - Carsten > > > >> >> One more thing: I do frequently small changes in the manual, >> so please make sure to update your patch to the most recent >> version of Org. >> >> >>> Please have a look at lines 1097 and 1379. >>> Looks like an erronius replacements. >>> As its done by a script, ... >> >> Well, hand checking will absolutely be necessary with this patch. > > Did that. Cancelled the warning already. Seems you didn't get the =20 > mail. > > What about checkin in the patch as it's done so far? > > Andreas > > >> Hope you can do as much as possible of that as well, maybe with >> comments in the text to get my attention to certain places. >> >> - Carsten >> >> On Aug 17, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Andreas R=F6hler wrote: >> >>> Am 16.08.2010 10:57, schrieb Carsten Dominik: >>>> >>>> On Aug 15, 2010, at 9:07 PM, Andreas R=F6hler wrote: >>>> >>>>> Am 15.08.2010 09:39, schrieb Carsten Dominik: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 15, 2010, at 9:37 AM, Carsten Dominik wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 13, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Andreas R=F6hler wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Am 11.08.2010 12:05, schrieb Carsten Dominik: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 9, 2010, at 9:28 PM, Dan Davison wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dan Davison writes: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Gregor Zattler writes: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Andreas, org-mode developers, >>>>>>>>>>>> * Andreas Burtzlaff [09. Aug. 2010]: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Carsten Dominik writes: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have put a version of the manual as modified by Andreas >>>>>>>>>>>>>> here: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://orgmode.org/org-manual-with-command-names.pdf >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not all the command names are in there, but quite a few =20= >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to hear from more people >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - if they would like to have the names there (i.e. if =20 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it would >>>>>>>>>>>>>> help them finding a command) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I would like the command names in the manual. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> - Emacs-lisp has a lovely tradition of naming functions =20 >>>>>>>>>>> *very* >>>>>>>>>>> descriptively and not being afraid to use long names in the >>>>>>>>>>> interests >>>>>>>>>>> of accuracy. It's a shame to lose all that by displaying =20 >>>>>>>>>>> only key >>>>>>>>>>> sequences. It's a linguistic world of its own and I like =20 >>>>>>>>>>> being >>>>>>>>>>> exposed >>>>>>>>>>> to it. >>>>>>>>>>> - While one can do C-h k, that's not the same as the way one >>>>>>>>>>> learns the >>>>>>>>>>> function names by skimming the manual >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Also, it does not add length to the HTML version of the =20 >>>>>>>>>> manual, >>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>> the key sequences are already on a line of their own. And the >>>>>>>>>> same is >>>>>>>>>> true for a certain proportion of the pdf entries (when the =20= >>>>>>>>>> key >>>>>>>>>> sequence >>>>>>>>>> is long, then it seems to go on its own line). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - if the position (first thing in the command =20 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> description) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is right, or if it would be better to have it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - last thing in the description >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - or after the first sentence, this is how the GNUS =20 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> manual >>>>>>>>>>>>>> does it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I definitely would want them out on a line of their own =20 >>>>>>>>>>> with the >>>>>>>>>>> key >>>>>>>>>>> sequence. I liked the right-aligned model. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Or if not right-aligned, is it possible not to have the =20 >>>>>>>>>>> comma? >>>>>>>>>>> Maybe a >>>>>>>>>>> different font? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I also like the position on the key line best. So if there =20 >>>>>>>>> is a >>>>>>>>> more-or-less >>>>>>>>> general agreement that we should get the names in, this =20 >>>>>>>>> would be my >>>>>>>>> preferred >>>>>>>>> location as well. I knot that this is different from what =20 >>>>>>>>> the emacs >>>>>>>>> and gnus manuals do - but I still think that a solution like =20= >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>> be better. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Andreas, can you be bothered to rework the patch? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Unfortunately I have no idea if/how the right-aligned model >>>>>>>>> could be >>>>>>>>> made to >>>>>>>>> work. So I think the safest way to do this would be to =20 >>>>>>>>> introduce >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> macro, >>>>>>>>> and we can then work on the macro to get the formatting =20 >>>>>>>>> right, and >>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>> to do the >>>>>>>>> key and function index stuff fully automatically. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Here is my proposal for now: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> @macro orgcmd{key,command} >>>>>>>>> @kindex \key\ >>>>>>>>> @findex \command\ >>>>>>>>> @item \key\ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @r{(}\command\@r{)} >>>>>>>>> @end macro >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And then define keys/commands like this: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> @table @kbd >>>>>>>>> ..... >>>>>>>>> @orgcmd{@key{TAB}, org-cycle} >>>>>>>>> Here follows the description of the command >>>>>>>>> .... >>>>>>>>> @end table >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - Carsten >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [ ... ] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Carsten, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> attached a sreenshot, how it comes out for C-c C-b. >>>>>>>> Doesn't look ok for me, as back-tick and quote are uncommon =20 >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> way. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Andreas, you are correct, this does not look right. >>>>>>> Seems like we will have to make the table ins @asis and >>>>>>> then have the macro apply the formatting. Sigh... :) >>>>>> >>>>>> If you do insert all the macro calls with the command names, I =20= >>>>>> will >>>>>> take >>>>>> care of the formatting. >>>>>> >>>>>> - Carsten >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> will do that. >>>>> >>>>> Let us check nonetheless a working example first. >>>>> >>>>> While trying to put @asis at the right place, I get error =20 >>>>> messages and >>>>> it refuses to compile. >>>>> >>>>> Could you re-write the example for me? >>>>> >>>>> Sorry being that stupid :-) >>>>> >>>>> Andreas >>>> >>>> I mean it like this: >>>> >>>> @macro orgcmd{key,command} >>>> @kindex \key\ >>>> @findex \command\ >>>> @item @kbd{\key\} @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ (@code{\command}\) >>>> @end macro >>>> >>>> And then define keys/commands like this: >>>> >>>> @table @asis >>>> ..... >>>> @orgcmd{C-c C-x @key{TAB}, org-cycle} >>>> Here follows the description of the command >>>> .... >>>> @end table >>>> >>>> >>>> Does this work? >>>> >>>> - Carsten >>> >>> >>> Think so, thanks. >>> Patch relying upon attached. >>> >>> >>> >>> Andreas >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list >>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode - Carsten