From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Carsten Dominik Subject: Re: latex export and beamer columns Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 07:55:11 +0100 Message-ID: References: <876394m49f.wl%ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> <3CB39269-FB18-4155-AF32-00F6B46F8061@gmail.com> <878wdylpw5.wl%ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> <876392lhfh.wl%ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> <87hbsklwfa.wl%ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NCpfu-00049T-Hq for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 02:18:58 -0500 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NCpfq-00047O-Ry for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 02:18:58 -0500 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=55802 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NCpfq-00047F-Kz for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 02:18:54 -0500 Received: from mail-ew0-f215.google.com ([209.85.219.215]:45553) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NCpfq-0000ej-5l for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 02:18:54 -0500 Received: by ewy7 with SMTP id 7so3290020ewy.8 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:18:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87hbsklwfa.wl%ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk Cc: org-mode mailing list On Nov 23, 2009, at 11:15 PM, Eric S Fraga wrote: > At Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:55:53 +0100, Carsten Dominik wrote: >> >> Hi Eric, >> >> I am now getting interested in beamer support. I think this is >> interesting enough to implement special support for making beamer >> slides. > > Excellent! > >> Can I ask you to think about it in general terms, what would be >> useful >> to have? > > I've been using org-mode for my presentations for a few months now and > intensively the past week or so for a set of lectures (70+ slides) I > have to give starting tomorrow (yikes! had better get them > finished...!). It's working remarkably well. > > Beamer has many many features and I think it would violate the ethos :-) > of org-mode if we attempted to support the majority of them. Although > I can suggest a number of features I think would be nice to support, > I'm sure others will have a different subset they think is > critical... however, I will give it a go: > > 1. being able to easily specify columns. I've proposed a solution > works well for me but it is a bit clumsy and does impose a meaning > on the 3rd and 4th level headings. This might conflict with other > potential uses for these headings obviously (cf. next point). Also, > please see my response to your comment on the impact of this on > normal latex export below. The nice thing about using headings to > indicate columns is the ease with which the columns can be > re-ordered. > > 2. it would be nice to support the block environment in beamer. The problem I see here is that one might want to have blocks inside a column, and maybe columns inside blocks. Is both allowed/practical/often-used? > The > obvious way would be to use 3rd level headings to indicate blocks. > In my case, I use these less frequently than columns which is why I > chose to use 3rd level headings to indicate columns. However, a > solution that catered for both would be great. > > one solution I am playing with, given that I often have blocks > within columns, is to use the 5th level headings for block > headings: > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > ("\\section{%s}" . "\\section*{%s}") > ("\\begin{frame}\\frametitle{%s}" "\\end{frame}" > "\\begin{frame}\\frametitle{%s}" "\\end{frame}") > ("\\begin{columns} \% %s" "\\end{columns}" > "\\begin{columns} \% %s" "\\end{columns}") > ("\\begin{column}{%s\\textwidth}" "\\end{column}" > "\\begin{column}{%s\\textwidth}" "\\end{column}") > ("\\begin{block}{%s}" "\\end{block}" > "\\begin{block}{%s}" "\\end{block}") > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > For example, the following would generate a block within a full > width column on the slide: > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > *** Another slide > ***** columns > ******* 1.0 > ********* My proposition > - work better > - work faster > - have a life > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > Although clumsy, it works! (set H:5 of course) > > 3. support for animation, typically through the special tags on > items and blocks (and more generally on most latex environments), > would be nice. This can be used to selectively display different > parts of a slide. One way to implement this, at least for itemized > lists, would be through a new bullet point syntax, as in: > > <1-> item to display from first virtual "slide" onwards > <2-3> display on second and third views of the slide > <-4> display up to 4th view > > which would translate to > > \begin{itemize} > \item<1-> item to display from first virtual "slide" onwards > \item<2-3> display on second and third views of the slide > \item<-4> display up to 4th view > \end{itemize} > > I have no idea how hard it would be to incorporate this into the > current list handling however... although I can imagine it could be > quite difficult. I think you can just write - <1-> item to display from first virtual "slide" onwards - <2-3> display on second and third views of the slide - <-4> display up to 4th view Beamer seems to allow a space between \item and the animation specification. But maybe we should allow the itemize environment to be fitted with the cookie to invoke default animation... > 4. as already mentioned in another email, passing arguments to the > frame environment would also be quite useful. This could be done > with an attribute type of framework as done for figures and > tables. I don't use many options to frame but I do find the need > to use [shrink=20] or similar often (because my default font > setting for beamer is "bigger" and so slides with more than a few > bullet points or equations quickly overflow the slide). Yes, I can see that this would be useful. > > 5. finally, I use tikz a great deal in my presentations. However, > this is probably best handled by the normal embedded latex features > already present. > > Again, this list is based on the features I find I use in beamer and > others will have other requirements unfortunately. > >> One of the problems with your most recent solution for the columns >> problem is that the document no longer exports really well to a >> normal >> LaTeX document - or is this no issue because beamer has its own way >> to >> produce handouts, so that the LaTeX export of a document intended for >> beamer is not so interesting? > > Yes, beamer provides a very nice handout mode (option "handout" to the > beamer document class). Is there also a way to add lots of additional text? Text that will not show up in the slides, but which will show up when creating handouts or a different output mode? For example, it could be nice to create the slides and the syllabus from the same document... > >> But also in a broader sense: What would be useful? I think making >> slides in this way, through org, could be extremely fast and useful. > > It is indeed fast and very useful. It's made preparing my slides much > less painful and almost a pleasure, especially the ease with which I > can now change the order of my presentation etc! But I should say > that, for pedagogical reasons, I purposely keep my slides quite > simple as much as possible. > > I look forward to seeing what you come up with! I'm happy to send you > examples of both beamer and org-mode->beamer that I have prepared for > seminars and teaching. Let me know. Yes, please do that, it is always useful to look at a real world example. - Carsten