* org-table formulas with missing values @ 2011-02-26 18:32 Thorsten 2011-02-27 0:01 ` Thorsten 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Thorsten @ 2011-02-26 18:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Hello, how do I best enter missing values in an org-tabel (just empty cells or NaN?) and how do I use that missing values in formulas? Thanks Thorsten ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: org-table formulas with missing values 2011-02-26 18:32 org-table formulas with missing values Thorsten @ 2011-02-27 0:01 ` Thorsten 2011-02-27 11:45 ` Bastien 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Thorsten @ 2011-02-27 0:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Thorsten <gruenderteam.berlin@googlemail.com> writes: > Hello, > how do I best enter missing values in an org-tabel (just empty cells or NaN?) > and how do I use that missing values in formulas? Ok, trial and error suggests that missing values in numeric columns can be represented as 0 in formulas, in string columns as "". Is there something like NaN in calc/org-table? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: org-table formulas with missing values 2011-02-27 0:01 ` Thorsten @ 2011-02-27 11:45 ` Bastien 2011-03-05 10:55 ` Thorsten 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2011-02-27 11:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Thorsten; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Hi Thorsten, Thorsten <gruenderteam.berlin@googlemail.com> writes: > Ok, trial and error suggests that missing values in numeric columns can > be represented as 0 in formulas, in string columns as "". Is there > something like NaN in calc/org-table? I don't know what is NaN. Can you give an example of what you're trying to achieve? -- Bastien ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: org-table formulas with missing values 2011-02-27 11:45 ` Bastien @ 2011-03-05 10:55 ` Thorsten 2011-03-05 11:01 ` Rainer M Krug 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Thorsten @ 2011-03-05 10:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes: > Hi Thorsten, > > Thorsten <gruenderteam.berlin@googlemail.com> writes: > >> Ok, trial and error suggests that missing values in numeric columns can >> be represented as 0 in formulas, in string columns as "". Is there >> something like NaN in calc/org-table? > > I don't know what is NaN. Can you give an example of what you're trying > to achieve? NaN stands for NotaNumber and is usually used in statistic programs to denote missing numerical values (that deserve special treatment, since including them in the calculations as 0 values would not be wise due to introduced bias or confusion with true measurements of a value=0). Fot example: | day | tel- calls | change (%) | |-----+------------+---------------------| | 1 | 7 | 0 | | 2 | 2 | -71 | | 3 | 3 | 50 | | 4 | | 0 | | 5 | 2 | round((2/0) 100, 0) | | 6 | 0 | 0 | | 7 | 3 | round((3/0) 100, 0) | #+TBLFM: $3=if(@$-1=0,0,round((((@$-1-@-1$-1) / @-1$-1) * 100), 0)::@2$3=@2$2-@2$2 Here one measurement (day 4) was missed, one day had 0 tel-calls (day 6). The change (%) is : ((calls day x) - (calls day x-1)) / (calls day x-1) * 100. The column-formula treats measurment and zero value the same, although it would be better to replace the missing value with the average (but how to adress it in the formula if not with 0 ?), and it treats the zero measurement like a missing value here. Even if there would be no zero value here, the missing value would cause a 'divide by zero' error. I could write 'nan' instead of leaving a blank, and use the string in the formula, but this causes errors. But calc does know the concept of nan: "The variables `inf', `uinf', and `nan' stand for infinite or indeterminate values. It's best not to use them as regular variables, since Calc uses special algebraic rules when it manipulates them. Calc displays a warning message if you store a value into any of these special variables." I'm not sure how to use that nan variable in tables and formulas - it seems not to be recognized. Thorsten ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: org-table formulas with missing values 2011-03-05 10:55 ` Thorsten @ 2011-03-05 11:01 ` Rainer M Krug 2011-03-06 22:44 ` Thorsten 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Rainer M Krug @ 2011-03-05 11:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Thorsten; +Cc: emacs-orgmode On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Thorsten <gruenderteam.berlin@googlemail.com> wrote: > Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes: > >> Hi Thorsten, >> >> Thorsten <gruenderteam.berlin@googlemail.com> writes: >> >>> Ok, trial and error suggests that missing values in numeric columns can >>> be represented as 0 in formulas, in string columns as "". Is there >>> something like NaN in calc/org-table? >> >> I don't know what is NaN. Can you give an example of what you're trying >> to achieve? > > NaN stands for NotaNumber and is usually used in statistic programs to > denote missing numerical values NaN ia, as you state, NotANumber, but it is NOT a missing value, for which the abbreviation is NA (Not Vavailable). An example for NaN would be 1/0 - the value is there, but it is not a number. And, consequently, NaN and NA can be treated separately. In general, if you enter values, you use NA, as you usually do not enter values which are not a number... > (that deserve special treatment, since > including them in the calculations as 0 values would not be wise due to > introduced bias or confusion with true measurements of a value=0). True. > > Fot example: > > | day | tel- calls | change (%) | > |-----+------------+---------------------| > | 1 | 7 | 0 | > | 2 | 2 | -71 | > | 3 | 3 | 50 | > | 4 | | 0 | > | 5 | 2 | round((2/0) 100, 0) | > | 6 | 0 | 0 | > | 7 | 3 | round((3/0) 100, 0) | > > #+TBLFM: $3=if(@$-1=0,0,round((((@$-1-@-1$-1) / @-1$-1) * 100), > 0)::@2$3=@2$2-@2$2 > > > Here one measurement (day 4) was missed, one day had 0 tel-calls (day > 6). > The change (%) is : > ((calls day x) - (calls day x-1)) / (calls day x-1) * 100. > > The column-formula treats measurment and zero value the same, although > it would be better to replace the missing value with the average (but > how to adress it in the formula if not with 0 ?), and it treats the zero > measurement like a missing value here. Even if there would be no zero > value here, the missing value would cause a 'divide by zero' error. > > I could write 'nan' instead of leaving a blank, and use the string in > the formula, but this causes errors. > > But calc does know the concept of nan: "The variables `inf', `uinf', and > `nan' stand for infinite or indeterminate values. It's best not to use > them as regular variables, since Calc uses special algebraic rules when > it manipulates them. Calc displays a warning message if you store a > value into any of these special variables." > > I'm not sure how to use that nan variable in tables and formulas - it > seems not to be recognized. > > Thorsten > > > -- NEW GERMAN FAX NUMBER!!! Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany) Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology Natural Sciences Building Office Suite 2039 Stellenbosch University Main Campus, Merriman Avenue Stellenbosch South Africa Cell: +27 - (0)83 9479 042 Fax: +27 - (0)86 516 2782 Fax: +49 - (0)321 2125 2244 email: Rainer@krugs.de Skype: RMkrug Google: R.M.Krug@gmail.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: org-table formulas with missing values 2011-03-05 11:01 ` Rainer M Krug @ 2011-03-06 22:44 ` Thorsten 2011-03-06 23:03 ` suvayu ali 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Thorsten @ 2011-03-06 22:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Rainer M Krug <r.m.krug@gmail.com> writes: > On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Thorsten > <gruenderteam.berlin@googlemail.com> wrote: >> Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes: >> >>> Hi Thorsten, >>> >>> Thorsten <gruenderteam.berlin@googlemail.com> writes: >>> >>>> Ok, trial and error suggests that missing values in numeric columns can >>>> be represented as 0 in formulas, in string columns as "". Is there >>>> something like NaN in calc/org-table? >>> >>> I don't know what is NaN. Can you give an example of what you're trying >>> to achieve? >> >> NaN stands for NotaNumber and is usually used in statistic programs to >> denote missing numerical values > > NaN ia, as you state, NotANumber, but it is NOT a missing value, for > which the abbreviation is NA (Not Vavailable). An example for NaN > would be 1/0 - the value is there, but it is not a number. And, > consequently, NaN and NA can be treated separately. In general, if you > enter values, you use NA, as you usually do not enter values which are > not a number... It seems there is no special variable 'na' in calc, and anyway, 'nan' is not recognized either, but calc-info agrees with you. nil does the job - but somehow interferes with the else-part of the formula, that is not calculated anymore: | day | tel- calls | change (%) | |-----+------------+-------------------------------------------------| | 1 | 7 | 0 | | 2 | 2 | 2 = nil ? nil : round(((2 - 7) / 7) 100, 0) | | 3 | 3 | 3 = nil ? nil : round(((3 - 2) / 2) 100, 0) | | 4 | nil | nil | | 5 | 2 | 2 = nil ? nil : round(((2 - nil) / nil) 100, 0) | | 6 | 0 | 0 = nil ? nil : round(((0 - 2) / 2) 100, 0) | | 7 | 3 | 3 = nil ? nil : round(((3 - 0) / 0) 100, 0) | #+TBLFM: $3=if(@$-1=nil,nil,round((((@$-1-@-1$-1) / @-1$-1) * 100), 0)::@2$3=@2$2-@2$2 But even if nil would work, my basic question remains: if I have for example a dynamic report were one code-block in the org file retrieves new data frequently and stores them in a table, which has some formula applied to it, and 0 values as well as missing values are possible, how can I address the empty cells in the formula without confusion with regards to the cells with 0 values? Thorsten ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: org-table formulas with missing values 2011-03-06 22:44 ` Thorsten @ 2011-03-06 23:03 ` suvayu ali 2011-03-08 19:18 ` Thorsten 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: suvayu ali @ 2011-03-06 23:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Thorsten; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Hi Thorsten, Disclaimer: I haven't tried any of what I am proposing below. Its just a thought that came to me while reading your post. On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Thorsten <gruenderteam.berlin@googlemail.com> wrote: > But even if nil would work, my basic question remains: if I have for > example a dynamic report were one code-block in the org file retrieves > new data frequently and stores them in a table, which has some formula > applied to it, and 0 values as well as missing values are possible, how > can I address the empty cells in the formula without confusion with > regards to the cells with 0 values? > Since recently calc code block support was added to babel, why not use that to process your table instead of table formulae? Wouldn't you expect it would be easier to deal with NaN and its likes directly with calc source compared to formulae? > Thorsten > -- Suvayu Open source is the future. It sets us free. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: org-table formulas with missing values 2011-03-06 23:03 ` suvayu ali @ 2011-03-08 19:18 ` Thorsten 0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Thorsten @ 2011-03-08 19:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode suvayu ali <fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com> writes: > Since recently calc code block support was added to babel, why not use > that to process your table instead of table formulae? Wouldn't you > expect it would be easier to deal with NaN and its likes directly with > calc source compared to formulae? I'm going to try that. I just did my first little trial using org-tables as a spread-sheet and immediatly hit the problem of how to deal with empty cells in column formulars. Therefore I thought that must be a very common issue with some easy well-known solution. ____________________ Thorsten ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2011-03-08 19:19 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2011-02-26 18:32 org-table formulas with missing values Thorsten 2011-02-27 0:01 ` Thorsten 2011-02-27 11:45 ` Bastien 2011-03-05 10:55 ` Thorsten 2011-03-05 11:01 ` Rainer M Krug 2011-03-06 22:44 ` Thorsten 2011-03-06 23:03 ` suvayu ali 2011-03-08 19:18 ` Thorsten
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).