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[106.69.94.169]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r19-20020a17090aa09300b001bc5fb5886asm5997887pjp.5.2022.03.02.14.17.23 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 02 Mar 2022 14:17:24 -0800 (PST) References: <87tuci9zp6.fsf@k-7.ch> <87h78hrdf8.fsf@gmail.com> <87czj4t6yc.fsf@k-7.ch> User-agent: mu4e 1.7.9; emacs 28.0.50 From: Tim Cross To: =?utf-8?Q?S=C3=A9bastien?= Gendre Subject: Re: How do you manage complex project with Org-mode Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2022 08:55:21 +1100 In-reply-to: <87czj4t6yc.fsf@k-7.ch> Message-ID: <87zgm8ov7y.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2607:f8b0:4864:20::102a (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::102a; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x102a.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, PDS_HP_HELO_NORDNS=0.659, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1646259478; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=tF22QEdUb57ivSQW3pt1Uy3FkNRC8E6z+gHC9rKsxV0=; b=p8EZopaSjRSyU0/WjhnunFbXPDFEYUITkQAMUbVH5frTeN2eFEWT0jQmD03AQLcunKPi5I N0CGrFwfHOmWvnW4yX8FA4zc+T5wTf24Q7oGS38gTmTlOAJrN2YkGFjHDMceUXTKrZTBxj zrSeEpTKKyQG+hR/IzrqDMWghmSkNDia8Zi6HCncflCyGdhSjnseBGDDjQT4pvcDLBYeJX xwpXEJT6uBzjP2QSnTc5X6HTW9arN6KnfpZb7z1qOhJWoYMIy+Mvlk21LSinCk5sVNFPSQ yvWRIB9bQKNkDQlvM/MDVI3/QEbGXJ9IOBs4qgkDPMLMX0dYgjr35ey4k4IJww== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1646259478; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=mrKX/eHq0szbnljE9WDaDLFefT14Ctb1iSQIm/e7zhNGYNE65cjwaynfPtusKPUru2GGBw NwmRjt0CyOTr5csejXQg8/hWSg/QeyMrKelbagRgsX5Ej1/Iup/ow6Kwh72cqjHbJOlxZa nNgUOpl6+VM5Aqq+6TdqXVi3NTpRDRDmOsOeyqjNbZswfRPA0m29mCde5SUYh07FMnaPij BpNmcOIwD0qFrq8LCUAmT2khii5cnSlHsbTH5HsXh4//aHmYoGcAYosd/kGnvqbXYaBm2V 6oRMcetgiotcNruxA3boNpIbTnDne40tWhYCSIII/5smC3CzK2ScbJrMT7vF4Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=JcVhPlix; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.27 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=JcVhPlix; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: CFC0117A9A X-Spam-Score: -4.27 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: gGggjIEfhJsZ S=C3=A9bastien Gendre writes: > Hello Tim, > > Thanks for your response and advice. > > I want to keep Org-mode as simple as possible. As you suggest. > > In the past, I ended up several times with a too complex Org-mode > workflow and stop using it because of that. That because, today, I want > to keep it simple. Usually, I apply a GTD workflow (or what I think it > is, I'm not an expert). > > As you say, I need to learn skills for project management. But the > project management methods we learned at school where to rigid. And, at > work, the method is more "do the job, stop thinking, be professional". > But it's, or was, the kind of job where you are asked to "not write test > to save time". I generally have bad experiences at work. Sadly, the software industry is full of some very poor middle managers who don't really understand the complexities of the software life-cycle. Too often, they focus on immediate deadlines and overlook long-term maintenance. How you deal with such situations is down to experience, confidence and where your own personal values lie. There has been more than one job I've left because the way management was running the project was poor and almost certainly going to lead to eventual failure. There has been more than one job interview where I've stated that if they are looking for someone to write code by the pound, I'm not there man. I will ask leading questions in the interview to evaluate what 'style' of development/management they use - for example, if they measure productivity by the number of lines of code you right in a day, I will thank them for their time and quietly walk away. > > To manage school big work, I think of managing them as projects. > > I want to apply a simple "Project" workflow: > > * Each project is a headline with the status "PROJECT" > * Each project have the deadline defined by the school work deadline > * Each project have a complete description with every info needed to work > * Each project have one or many tasks (as sub headlines with a status) > * Each task have a importance, time and effort estimation > * Each task have its own deadline, distributed along the remaining time > * When I set a task deadline, I look at its estimations and also other pr= ojects tasks > * To create a new project, I use Org-capture with a template > > Every time I create a new project, it start with one task: "Planning the > project". With a deadline at 2 days max. The description of this task is > a checkbox list of thing to do when planning the project. > > And finally, 2 times per week, I got a repetitive task: "Review the > projects progress". With this, I should be able to adjust spending time > and effort. > All seems like a reasonable starting point. The key is to regularly review and refine your workflow. I would avoid the tendency to think you have to put everything into your workflow. For example, I would not have a task which says to review my tasks twice a week. Do you really need a task to remind you to do this twice a week? Do you really need to track that you have done this? I would classify such tasks as 'noise' tasks. They really don't perform any real purpose. It is similar to brain dead project policies which state things like "every function must have a unit test". Many functions don't need a unit test and forcing people to write pointless unit tests does more damage than not having them. A unit test needs to be a positive addition and deciding when it is or is not is part of what being a professional developer is all about. Likewise with project management. You don't want tasks for every simple thing you do. You want to record and track the important tasks. No tool is a replacement for using your brain - these are just tools and it is down to us to use them in an intelligent and efficient manner. Use org mode to make your life easier. If it isn't making it easier, then you are doing something wrong and need to review and re-prioritise.