From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id INrcDxGV2mPh4gAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 17:36:33 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id KOrtDhGV2mMyaAAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 17:36:33 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 060769D50 for ; Wed, 1 Feb 2023 17:36:32 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pNG5B-0003hS-Fv; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 11:35:37 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pNG59-0003hK-Pc for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 11:35:35 -0500 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pNG57-00051a-ER for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 11:35:35 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EAFEE240614 for ; Wed, 1 Feb 2023 17:35:30 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1675269331; bh=ktTc7AVrlm4mKryEaF6cDYinqd88oo4ml+0B6+LIZLc=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=fIA82kiBCLSTlDsEyAPY0OhcIaarVl109zx1cN3Q6inI4mCcqwayYrH9y/eZlof0S KrM/QxvH6fbBwmD59dCxwIeNUb/qCeKvDEwsLfgtgpDLvMUdnFhqtuS9kp/TzHZ6/m YrwssyGAd+KjczybLvpCmEwuH9L5ukfUWdBH4Lwl9E9MZaNXHWW6TfUkpCiOJQYnoQ fH73ZZI8oCqocLI6GaJ1WTyDOStdPOHT57tThacYJtZdaRZ//eD5jaWx27FDxHPhgM EGVbrIXWqjdRLNI0JLmZMgACN7AeQV9PIDR5h15ZFfnoaY/EQfDhCMA0AsLK9TGzRD +Je2rmT0aJtvQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4P6SFt1kf8z6tmL; Wed, 1 Feb 2023 17:35:29 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Jean Louis Cc: Tim Cross , tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) In-Reply-To: References: <2150768.1675077958@archlinux> <87tu063ox2.fsf@localhost> <87h6w63jgg.fsf@localhost> <86wn51g661.fsf@gmail.com> <87357pn57t.fsf@localhost> <86sffpg1bv.fsf@gmail.com> <87wn51lmia.fsf@localhost> Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2023 16:36:07 +0000 Message-ID: <87zg9xibrc.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1675269393; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=qkpZSY3zgin95XZ0C28SOGWfr5wQfa+1PY0md18ZiGfAg6nI5LHw6PV5tON16fnOIt+tGG PAQUKjQBRb81hiX185zUKtzEiG/J4QOrYBPWH3SGpVwpKKDD8vKAdHw71p0jI740gBTOE4 +f6nUMU9zcKxE8UBKWkGwsqWlcjxbTExQGwCYh6m/FBaN+1hUBt1OPv+xlNzeFsAhDhPZd hMU+MqLEEI2jjz2qtgKRTkhaBadEIVQJ30jVKk3CjXGrewjLSIVgN/UQ6WrYAeBnm3kr23 /trIy+TEEBvJw+zzM8mhoiPNCVI006i1NAnHit3rNp6RyHQ5/ShmbBy8Cyan5g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=fIA82kiB; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1675269393; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=ecIhpwvRUommL7jD6WJC/dg0zPQaRO6ukzbMQNiHkBY=; b=nqOC452Ct01kdSrHPJgR4bVoskMSV4jgePQLLccr2Z775Ctb79u1RlackMxJAUOJbsd+Tv 8sFlpmB0lLRFEdB1EalmVbOVVCqnHlimfUKQp0D1ti8djQgk7CT6GOgKmR3NvRJVF10M+g QFgieYBvmeQHWyD5x+BQe4xTiIwE87fSH+a6+Pv4hZorF2XYIZOg0JnZgkhpjaP7sFlHPm SRjnxCgRTteUxVdjN5VallLgRbnyx5TCuuHNpa/Wbh921odAkDJwRo5AlsqN8SrEior3AF e9ZMYWE4hO524UhmTxuUCB97dD1rHQYkLwUzQkNDNYYyol93O3tnYooJVOkPAQ== Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=fIA82kiB; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.54 X-Spam-Score: -4.54 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 060769D50 X-TUID: GtqHgE6SyR5N Jean Louis writes: > Using UTC offset for future time stamps is IMHO possibly much more > problematic for the same reason of possible changes in future. Yes. But it is also an advantage when the purpose is creating timestamp independent of possible changes in future. >> Complex time zones in timestamps will not rely on user's computer having >> the up-to-date time zone database: [1916-09-12 12:00+01 @Europe/London] >> unambiguously specifies the UTC offset yet emphasizing that the >> timestamp is related to specific location (Europe/London, but not >> Europe/Paris). In fact, one may somewhat abuse this format and specify >> [1916-09-12 12:00+01 @France/Marseille] emphasizing the location. > > Then if they are not to relay on time zone database, on what they can > rely as alternative? I suggest ignoring @... if +01 is specified (unless "@!..." is provided). Then, the timestamp is considered in a nautical time zone with fixed (+01) offset from UTC. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at