From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Rasmus Subject: Re: would take more than an org-mode strip-down. Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 19:34:05 +0100 Message-ID: <87y5x8qzxe.fsf@gmail.com> References: <92B42F15-B849-473D-9E4C-F513A5DD80E8@me.com> <81hb3wn420.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:44755) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R8yvI-0003qU-FY for Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Sep 2011 14:32:01 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R8yvH-000157-6Q for Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Sep 2011 14:32:00 -0400 Received: from mailout-eu.gmx.com ([213.165.64.43]:56062) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R8yvG-00014e-Rs for Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Sep 2011 14:31:59 -0400 In-Reply-To: (James Levine's message of "Wed, 28 Sep 2011 10:47:31 -0400") List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: James Levine Cc: Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Hi James, Thanks for your mails. > You can not deny, however, that even the design of this > forum is but one example of how the Emacs community maintains its > exclusivity. Own up to it.=20 It's a mailing list =E2=89=A0 forum :) Anyway news is not fashionable, but = sites like Gmane makes it quite available. The problem is not news but that people generally does not know news. > But for those who are following the statements on comparing org-mode > to commercial substitutes like Taskpaper=20 It's only a substitute if you so desire. > In order for org-mode to be attractive as an alternative to popular > self-help like GTD, Covey and the market of task managers both digital > and paper that exist, this community would need to take all this > extensive documentation and package it.=20 I simply can grasp this. The manual is provided in several flavors; if anything the manual is lacking in some areas, but in general it's great. Several tutorials, specifically on GTD exists on Worg (our `wiki'). > Do not confuse content with transparency. Do not confuse a learning curve with transparency. Algebra, philosophy and economics also take time. > Should open-source software not concern itself with good > bullet points? Emacs and therefore Org is free software. > Does this imply that I=E2=80=99m not appreciative of the work? Course not, please keep voicing your opinion and let me voice mine :)=20 > There=E2=80=99s an opportunity cost with finding the time for even this > thread, which I=E2=80=99m hoping we can agree should not be a barrier of = entry > for those who are simply interested in trying org-mode. As it stands, > however, just trying org-mode takes lots of reading if just to install > correctly. That=E2=80=99s all I=E2=80=99m saying. By now several packages of Emacs for beginners exists. On mac there is the Aquamacs, on Windows I think there is something called ErgoMacs or something like that. Plus there are various Emacs Starter Kits. > Text is but one way that people learn. If you=E2=80=99re documenting sofw= are, > it leans towards rational, logical, and linear thinking.=20 This method has proven evolutionary stable so far, has it not? > Some people require a full-picture model first seeing things from many > angles. Other=E2=80=99s prefer trial and error, and others, still, enjoy > hypotheticals.=20 All of these seems compatible to a linear presentation. All text is linear but you may elect a certain order of texts suiting your needs. > People can adopt different strategies along the way. But to insist on > only one method of learning and sharing, while being concerned that > you=E2=80=99re not meeting a larger audience is tantamount to calling the= rest > of the class stupid, or simply a manner of dishonesty with one=E2=80=99s = own > motivations. This is the greatness of a freedom of ideas. People may opt in on their favorite approach, no? > Maybe what would be helpful is some bridge instruction: =E2=80=9CGraduati= ng > from Taskpaper: so you=E2=80=99re ready to try org-mode. What to expect:= =E2=80=9D I do > find that if I have an orientation point, even if it wasn=E2=80=99t the b= est > decision in the first place, I have a better reference as to the > changes I would envision and what the value of future options would > be. You are talking about specific to general `solutions'. As many have pointed out this will necessarily lead to a restricted set of possibilities. It further assumes that there is an `appropriate' or `encouraged' way of utilizing Org. Aside from a few hard-coded=C2=B9 symbo= ls this is very much not the case. I use Org for writing first and task management second. Other use it for management first.=20 That being said Worg is open. If you feel a particular tutorial (usually specific to specific documents) is missing feel free to add it, /or/ describe what is lacking. For instance theoretical as well as practical toughs on GTD is widely discussed on Worg. > what=E2=80=99s the ethical ambiguity in earning a living from setting up > management systems for people and institutions, even if you=E2=80=99re us= ing > open-source material?=20 There is no ethical ambiguity. It would be selling a service. This is encouraged. The ethical issues is concerned with not providing people with the opportunity to `remix' and re-share to use a slightly different terminology (see freedom 0-3 of free software definition). =E2=80=93Rasmus Footnotes:=20 =C2=B9 Is that still the case or was everything such a `*' changed to variables? --=20 Sent from my Emacs