From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Gareth Smith Subject: Re: Collaborating with TODO lists and clocks. Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 19:21:53 +0100 Message-ID: <87y5bzop4u.fsf@doc.ic.ac.uk> References: <87li82se2b.fsf@totherme.org> <87obcybgmc.fsf@berkeley.edu> <87txmpoz34.fsf@doc.ic.ac.uk> <87vc743hyw.fsf@berkeley.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:49049) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UXFBg-0001PV-QN for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Apr 2013 14:22:03 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UXFBd-0007Y4-AI for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Apr 2013 14:22:00 -0400 Received: from smtp2.cc.ic.ac.uk ([155.198.5.156]:54212) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UXFBd-0007Xp-03 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Apr 2013 14:21:57 -0400 Received: from host86-162-179-23.range86-162.btcentralplus.com ([86.162.179.23] helo=localhost) by smtp2.cc.ic.ac.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1UXFBa-0004Bv-JQ for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Apr 2013 19:21:55 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87vc743hyw.fsf@berkeley.edu> (Richard Lawrence's message of "Mon, 29 Apr 2013 18:50:17 -0700") List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Hi Richard, Thanks for those suggestions - they're definitely helpful. I'll have a bit more of a think, and if I come up with a "more optimal" idea, I'll post again. Cheers, Gareth. Richard Lawrence writes: > Hi Gareth, > > Gareth Smith writes: > >> I hadn't thought of using :tags on a clock table. I still worry if we'll >> find ourselves in a situation where more than one of us has clocked in >> some time on the same task. > > Yes, I agree this might not be optimal, for that case in particular. > One nice thing about this use of tags is that you have a representation > of when more than one person is working on a task, but that makes the > clock less useful, as it can no longer represent an individual's working > time without some effort to separate the clocks of the different owners. > >> For example, often I clock into a task while I do the work of >> sub-dividing it into smaller tasks. And often when I'm actively working >> on a task, I'll create a sub-task of my current-clocked-task on the >> fly. It seems to me that if I continue with this sort of working >> practice, and attempt to collaborate with others who work similarly, >> then we might quickly find that it's not easy to describe a given task >> (or even subtask) as being "owned" by a single person. > > So one problem case is where you "own" a task, but someone else owns one > of its subtasks, e.g.: > > ========================================== > * Clock tables > #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :scope file :tags "+gareth" > #+CAPTION: Clock summary at [2013-04-29 Mon 18:25] > | Headline | Time | | > |--------------------+--------+------| > | *Total time* | *3:05* | | > |--------------------+--------+------| > | TODO Task 1 | 3:05 | | > | \__ TODO Subtask 1 | | 1:05 | > | \__ TODO Subtask 2 | | 1:00 | > #+END: > #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :scope file :tags "+john" > #+CAPTION: Clock summary at [2013-04-29 Mon 18:17] > | Headline | Time | | > |--------------------+--------+------| > | *Total time* | *1:05* | | > |--------------------+--------+------| > | TODO Task 1 | 1:05 | | > | \__ TODO Subtask 1 | | 1:05 | > #+END: > > * TODO Task 1 :gareth: > CLOCK: [2013-04-29 Mon 18:15]--[2013-04-29 Mon 19:15] => 1:00 > ** TODO Subtask 1 :john: > CLOCK: [2013-04-29 Mon 18:15]--[2013-04-29 Mon 19:20] => 1:05 > ** TODO Subtask 2 :gareth: > CLOCK: [2013-04-29 Mon 16:16]--[2013-04-29 Mon 17:16] => 1:00 > ========================================== > > Notice that Gareth gets credit for John's time on Subtask 1, because > Gareth owns Task 1. > > You can avoid this particular gotcha in (at least) two ways: > > 1) Remove the :gareth: tag on task 1 and move the clock time to subtask > 2 (more generally, "ownership" tags and clock times should only appear > at the lowest level of the task tree). Maybe this makes the most sense, > but it slows down the worflow a bit and is hard to enforce, etc. > > 2) Use a tag filter like "+gareth-john" to build the clock table (more > generally, the clock table for each person should exclude tags for all > the others). This prevents double counting and is easy to enforce, but > if any tasks have more than one owner, no one will get credit for their > clock times. > >> Again, perhaps my workflow is at fault, and I should be organising >> myself in a more principled way. And perhaps in practice I'll find that >> tasks do tend to be owned by just one person anyway. > > Yeah, it's a hard problem with no general solution that I can see. The > best thing is just to figure out what constraints you're willing to put > on your workflow, given what Org allows you to do. > > Hope that's helpful! > > Best, > Richard