From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id 4ZJWIg4hs2GQqQAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 10:42:38 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id CBVrHQ4hs2FHVAAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 09:42:38 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 21012131DA for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 10:42:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:56082 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvcQG-0005nL-Fx for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 04:42:36 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50264) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvbl1-0001nZ-QK for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 03:59:59 -0500 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.4]:49669) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvbky-0007Jk-RP for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 03:59:59 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1639126794; bh=9p9onaepD5/9up9bTl2et+oRo+z42sBG6zCOqGq4dq0=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:References:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-reply-to; b=ptgMbU299dDeqzWA+kTyf1kAA6s9po8ocKw/PDSo6EYGkARw3i0vClVVwnsbqE625 dy+ILo7tfY5ziz4m9ysXMKz9N3rU6mzG6ZakR7LvWrJZFld4S30TZ/khRKNV1kkK1I FxK4BQS2hQpC8gScZbnvZ2xosRRWrNc2rIVoJGwg= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from fluss ([80.136.27.113]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb006 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MumJD-1mdO7F1y7f-00rMYM; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 09:59:54 +0100 References: <87o85vbb9a.fsf@localhost> <87y24zs40r.fsf@posteo.net> <87lf0zb6fq.fsf@localhost> <87ilw3419x.fsf@gmail.com> <87o85v9la3.fsf@localhost> <87a6he4ngu.fsf@gmail.com> <87k0gf5hud.fsf@localhost> <87tufjt8r1.fsf@gmail.com> <87zgpbuktz.fsf@web.de> <87wnkenjhx.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> <87ee6ltl37.fsf@web.de> <87pmq5upo8.fsf@gmail.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.6.10; emacs 27.2 From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" To: Tim Cross Subject: Re: Concrete suggestions to improve Org mode third-party integration :: an afterthought following Karl Voit's Orgdown proposal Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 07:08:23 +0100 In-reply-to: <87pmq5upo8.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87y24ssum4.fsf@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:kRvGofWuEjXCNGE50JPTugz81C1Wp/7mwMsWu1a1FOObDaTd9uu 7tN0R7Gd79fXiWxZIuMueHxuk5710Rnp8TkBtQY4luIJjSlCpueOPd5zMQWMpZfoUv7nXuK Z9HR0aFx217pGMYmyZ+iZqlAmSnpU8+mR3zP1qsQzH8kAt07Vw44STNlqy/CcYOskaZs4ve Pl5bXwOqf5vjMwpZkZaHQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:ormL65T8p+c=:+SAddmhumbya3luTa/eYAC owHXae7dq62oejwx+vfa+1TGi/JP17kMtk+G5KbMy+1xRDan5GFl49N3tDijW78gVZQ5U0XuF TH9X6gxSq0yxDThodzHXUnJzeaZfC0g2vzErHFMn/GzuuNu+MSajburfm6w2C0FvjX+5bUlWE DRZLgRGFgIQL+cSQnRnmxbh2vbrBjYQ7i6QsAL29WV6VhmbAunnoX8SRU0TdgQqeej1xCwNv+ c36jIELplPX4uP4e3rlFcYehhJBes4kGMLqAoda7CIY5+9D5rVFQmPm3itZqWMNbIDx9aPkzm 4JerGmCmm//jhhFJt69O5rJBTVyknkJOesjpyWqXJIy1s6Vxx4b7jBb+wbG4XRQJT+Pn0SE2r nhOOWxJGSDKm3oWnEeoF1BEgEihz0Jv7QfbTNV5k6WjOfdjboGM4yaKP9ZFAVFEGJ+1xp1R7c MxDRgO464EnGNB0i19qULG4Hd/WREUpD/Krn4MXRXlyzij0bz1HPiEGTxS7YfQtcC/tQWqq9z rT1i8DM2OVTRoSixsdBW485J75dor/9f9utZkU2ODQCVbsC+xAfCrF4d4qHY/iwAUOIrIhNHx hdNy63WgBKRB6DL4yFcXf++kilGArLcqNZeqhmrdJ0kWVdjgVxadEyLk6vKN7UN5LJpeSRJv8 umLLW9PA4uEtpaH8GdGU7sJWmVopJ42dftOj14hchewFrlqFsYPjPy1Y1WA/WzjWwxP8n4KyX 8F6NCK/kdmqSuFDwycwKUtMoVquuU6F1+cdSlXbwY820UuHSEBPRMxypjo+UaYeooZnyiBWA0 DCIBGBZcRbQ2jfkj2tBFPWj1GgNIZyL1LmKR+MfUFAyN7Gq6jALnZYUhxemLppJ59JcsGD5r5 vjWS9cTxmdEmWsYXiv9PNIfGi7sC9IQSvkwfXGaPX4U8Avu02ARbLxfVMxhFmoQ7qp95uWo9v bAMMkDScuJ+mabGO7fK3KJejg2uXuRBebNUEW1Y+ICWtl3p0BtHkV/LwHgjKSSHJaMcJGNBnS cs16zAS3wLpbVg+GfMGSHAgTureYhFvUjCZiayY/Xmi0Tn4pON6amzuIygGiPAQ0sY38sgpVL hDLqMFkp0Ezfdo= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.4; envelope-from=arne_bab@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1639129358; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=9p9onaepD5/9up9bTl2et+oRo+z42sBG6zCOqGq4dq0=; b=uA0wkM6L6kdbpYM1GDnDBS/jdiq0dNVgODdkatraYJA5B+hZSXmZeqdG3yop18wq4hmOtj eIEg7I+0bg5o1K+uk0UM2p4gjN1frd/eaTvU/SV3DMMyCENK0pdSepm8t+ZYEyptWJN3q5 pqYGxXRx4Tt5abrVtiIif9rslOupqpCulkYucx4I9w4vbacAmdNRSyKLnMZ7Faow8/2N/i TwQcgnJS7W0Wc/mmb2UpAvRNLO7DVQzJIAgTmk5LOQ05jq9wTh9d+Wpn8we7yZLble163Z 9iu9ejQC+jIh4ywZnUv6riqIQZk3hMMWMRykXcouIaqbX6Eg9iQD1cDL/2AK3g== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1639129358; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=ObfpowbEQQ2zVPywIm0b/YEowf+cSV82mfh0J7+RzqtWiMYNL5KpxeJ/BmkGzSgMwMYLwf s00I1fHg9P8vGnRDO3xDREAMZjox/+29iUueWBiHW+AsdKOSYWju2BC8LKYQwdKwrrQibD LQYx/d/pHEa1jn+WEwsl+GWvPI2T1aAASI0f+r5Bxl72jFIoWg2bHXaO3DgJjaqbYbfKEY uyoTyl9MG5dJvaKOzmp1qh22kJfLLA7WW5CUZktxmkGkw4JiaSFVI3vcEAbCFkuMCxX2pj 1WOX60vp42sjUC6vZo6AZK478EegPgaVYtFYaQ/oNos7Ggjivoa/NPexKKqbSw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=web.de header.s=dbaedf251592 header.b=ptgMbU29; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=web.de; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -6.36 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=web.de header.s=dbaedf251592 header.b=ptgMbU29; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=web.de; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 21012131DA X-Spam-Score: -6.36 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: jBEWJqxg/lIT --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tim Cross writes: > "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" writes: >> The change to electric indent broke my workflow badly (always having to >> undo the indentation after every new headline), and it took long until I >> found out how to avoid that. > environment. While this change may have 'broken' your workflow, the > previous behaviour was breaking other users workflows because org did > not honour electric-indent-mode and was not consistent with other core > emacs modes.=20 This stretches the definition of workflow. Other users had a less consistent workflow, but since orgmode had never done electric indent, they did not have a workflow requiring electric indent in org which could be broken by the existing behaviour. This is rather an example where going for consistency over stability creates problems. (but still: that happened once; emacs is not perfectly stable, but when staying close to vanilla, it is mostly stable) Best wishes, Arne =2D-=20 Unpolitisch sein hei=C3=9Ft politisch sein, ohne es zu merken. draketo.de --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJEBAEBCAAuFiEE801qEjXQSQPNItXAE++NRSQDw+sFAmGzFwYQHGFybmVfYmFi QHdlYi5kZQAKCRAT741FJAPD6ye4D/9Ep9uyWzW58DgPjrDUwXrHc5XF4V1iynMR tHBmHtkhYdJ7BC0z0dzR5l2ayretH4uB/9FiQcVUffHaHw2lXuwRSqfhebfCGGhk 0sWW7jGC4SntBPdEq1/sP9uFFQ2aBuGo0IZlZAs6YBwGiGYeCukfr6se4IDopwqX WBRWVtrXuODb/iryYlGPBYVxDqJNRle9NkHSvHp8J6NXEWhsxhTg5aegTWXVnJx6 Ici0Mh7d4+hNCmP2QPhrcvVV6O5MT2uOM9NVNJFmRwW7EYCHUQC3CTdJwy4EH84l mohmp2S7dBC0UdTQvRsTAWz1FVdpK5hWLJFG1F+GHYh6KSiqqYrCznQwMrQFlnJP fPVH1J8j8DSS2ohGS5o0uUeDeVdQ6TGaw0IgMLUKDmZi1sTusaYxdgk3C2jNekl2 TJlgvKtY2qRzyRXRsrqZjimRq1RW1RnLKdIIm64pUGt0BosN3TF+MQsIa87v5e/L g6WNuy6s3Vg8nwsL2hIPIkyKFAkdvZXwhp2i35Bc5r+dMFOSYSxNaCZ/E7Iw+8N0 owr/kmJsSpZpkG1ttahOP8xG5kbJQdYbWyNRj+Dzoi82XdWmfUc0f6S6GE2WaIIt S0c6NDteZLPj4kWEBzGHqbRoVTesFiFs/Nix0jh9jO2+VJfUq8+EAA5dDy+gnmpE DOp8HMdJA4jEBAEBCAAuFiEE3Si95tmHXKvOSosd3M8NswvBBUgFAmGzFwkQHGFy bmVfYmFiQHdlYi5kZQAKCRDczw2zC8EFSNfeA/90DsKjrF48uB/2tIWlV1yfNWFf Q/ZRv4ejg9eETDMGdQ6/8YoWr7m25af956Cwg7nE5ZNDQ29ceAFn3I137TxnA6Rv fI8yJ4CB85UOLT+MuWfXs2XwfHkPXyeEKqMWGhha21LDPfSQFXHoVb9FZYi11J2s NUdH5auvCgnqs7lVyg== =k1Pu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--