From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:403:4789::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms9.migadu.com with LMTPS id WJvqDdBb1WTYMgAASxT56A (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2023 23:51:12 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:403:4789::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id 0E4yDtBb1WT4swAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2023 23:51:12 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F0323F3AC for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2023 23:51:11 +0200 (CEST) Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=fNXlwSRi; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1691704272; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=0lAXAPVnfd94DoxqnClUGP/iyGmwTAGGOa9ukR6kC2Q=; b=XjVW6MtRi7CcSkbKlgI4ol3KoP8XSrK3xY/nS+a0wGzGu5duekZ3IrPz/qbQemnC2zWufS 1wLJbbebEeK4N0ERKwRj2hPyQRZP/DZnSKe5WiNHF5UaLndM8/3lqTRUXga6rRFUVXQBlZ OWF4l/5PN71is9o0lFRA2btjOwa1lo20n/JHhfss2P47FQRSi66nYXF3IiTqEx3aGdBYsa aPic2KkJcXGb0qGNHh3qOlBZSXukrOqtUW27bnNS6rxp4h32UL9WwagW/FD8kbYzblhcai Qg14pe7mkQGvgPXwGay77TMNdScGWwLs0M6n8tHec2mMGo8qWAaUouQttvYLAA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=fNXlwSRi; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1691704272; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=rQbf4ACxBDXcIeyOEBtAmQpHyqi5mAO8Sby+otXfk3RiW12aDhhTUpCZlkBj32E1/TGbV4 ndH6z+z6l7PMMjhYqJJ+gvvtzwtCLXHOlfDGYNSsuhWphjGBn3qg4/LMK6OJTWjQTHsSJq io8zcO5kIS1/DtK8UH/tXEqmj0ZhKAQ9txF3ETHZL0puEETl9Erwa+53fo35BBfi+uy8Hh Rk1tWQFZow59NBEyINhxbQ5RcMWoKufGIi9YOvteQyChQMoS2GVZ+Uhv2B7DS+m7QgW/mq V0doERRgWTG8uAzDAtf0AXPyqPgha3bfxPrAsJIOtCWZIB4HMqm6afqy12fWQQ== Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qUDXu-0007JY-Ix; Thu, 10 Aug 2023 17:50:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qUDXt-0007JN-Gm for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Aug 2023 17:50:17 -0400 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qUDXq-0003jz-UB for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Aug 2023 17:50:17 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71487240028 for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2023 23:50:12 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1691704212; bh=daV4+az8UuWBLNmd6jio/Va0sWsgjwf884MDFMi55PQ=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Transfer-Encoding:From; b=fNXlwSRivlzaazuwRM6VvoleTXRCNF3lo0DYOF6e2W5as4Lw/MaVT/HK7TW98/Kns Sp1auJT2/20isHYsNjrvHtOWpSI1+6A9SKGyUH3tnZia1DuUWgqm6tQHM3DkWmJGeG nIqsaXxZ4Z/djUiiRvRNAsjt03ER8LfBrIToZ82HNcymXbC0wFlyWtKhlWLAhYI9A+ 09u5THst256DngSQPBHZhjZGyuD9kCsjp7PGX4BXvwkymuLrQwHfUI212790ZkVoCO vcgCEKcSLbu8MHIoTbCmefangE/xQCuXSorfc7koyShog3iMXb7fWfuTEt02P06l8J c5V+b3u7b1LRQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4RMLFH6JtDz6tvq; Thu, 10 Aug 2023 23:50:11 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Juan_Manuel_Mac=C3=ADas?= To: Bastien Cc: Max Nikulin , orgmode Subject: Re: [patch] Fix inner smart quotes in French In-Reply-To: <87350rgdfh.fsf@bzg.fr> (Bastien's message of "Thu, 10 Aug 2023 16:49:38 +0200") References: <87fs4zxo9s.fsf@posteo.net> <87pm43qd2q.fsf@gnu.org> <85c3d323-407a-0154-e316-d891325d8273@gmail.com> <87350rgdfh.fsf@bzg.fr> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2023 21:50:09 +0000 Message-ID: <87y1iiy3ce.fsf@posteo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=maciaschain@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 5F0323F3AC X-Migadu-Scanner: mx1.migadu.com X-Spam-Score: -6.86 X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -6.86 X-TUID: ZuOXIrgKIlLR Bastien writes: > Yes, this is also what the French national printing press ("Imprimerie > nationale"), which is quite authoritative in this matter, recommends. > > Note that the Full recommendation of the Imprimerie nationale is to > repeat second-level quotation marks at the beginning and of each line > when the text spans over several lines, like this: > > Then X reported : =C2=AB This is what Y said : =C2=AB Here is > =C2=AB a quotation with a paragraph spaning over several > =C2=AB lines, with each line starting with a quotation mark > =C2=AB until the end of the quotation. =C2=BB=20 > > (The unique =C2=BB at the end is intentional, the rule is to not repeat.) I've been looking at the babel-french documentation (LaTeX) (http://mirrors.ctan.org/macros/latex/contrib/babel-contrib/french/frenchb.= pdf), which claims to be based on "Lexique des r=C3=A8gles typographiques en usage =C3=A0 l=E2=80=99Imprimerie Nationale, troisi=C3=A8me =C3=A9dition (1994)";= p. 3 is about quotation marks and the different options: ----- with all engines: the inner quotation is surrounded by double quotes (=E2=80=9Ctexte=E2=80=9D) unless option InnerGuillSingle=3Dtrue, then a) th= e inner quotation is printed as =E2=80=B9 texte =E2=80=BA and b) if the inner quota= tion spreads over more than one paragraph, every paragraph included in the inner quotation starts with a =E2=80=B9 or a =E2=80=BA or nothing, depending on o= ption EveryParGuill=3Dopen (default) or =3Dclose or =3Dnone. with LuaTeX based engines, it is possible to add a French opening or closing guillemet (=C2=AB or =C2=BB) at the beginning of every line of the = inner quotation using option EveryLineGuill=3Dopen or =3Dclose; note that with any of these options, the inner quotation is surrounded by French guillemets (=C2=AB and =C2=BB) regardless option InnerGuillSingle; the default is EveryLineGuill=3Dnone so that \frquote{} behaves as with non-LuaTeX engines. ----- I have tried this example with quotes per line: https://i.imgur.com/od4HwUs.png In any case (apart from LaTeX), it is clear that I was wrong when I said that the inner quotes that my patch 'corrects' were 'incorrect'. What I don't know is why babel-french defaults to the =C2=AB =E2=80=9Cinner=E2=80= =9D =C2=BB style. Is it the most used currently in France? If the =C2=AB =C2=AB inner =C2=BB =C2=BB= style is more canonical, I don't mind having my patch 'fix' reverted. --=20 Juan Manuel Mac=C3=ADas=20 https://juanmanuelmacias.com https://lunotipia.juanmanuelmacias.com https://gnutas.juanmanuelmacias.com